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Shocking news for retirees in uk - Page 4

Andy999

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:55pm

Andy999

Original Poster

Posts: 148

42 helpful points

Joined: 30 Sep 2018

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:55pm

chevyrecycler34 wrote on Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:48pm:

I wasn't suggesting the brits carry Spain, places like Benidorm are victims in all kinds of garbage that limits travel and the like, nor was I glorifying in the fact we've been here under the old financial requirements '

re pension income is it acceptable to now or shortly need to have had a wage/salary that enables one to earn a £27.000 per year pension just to be able to come to Spain to retire ?, can anyone tell me what kind of wage/salary that £27000 might equate to and if so they were living comfortably&nb...

...sp; off that pension why would they want to come to Spain as opposed to staying at home or looking elsewhere ?

As regards "handouts" what hangouts?

27k is very high . I have a so called gold plated pension and don’t get anything near that ! Not many brits will be on that kind of pension ! 

DarioMartin

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:01pm

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 5396

6436 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:01pm

chevyrecycler34 wrote on Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:48pm:

I wasn't suggesting the brits carry Spain, places like Benidorm are victims in all kinds of garbage that limits travel and the like, nor was I glorifying in the fact we've been here under the old financial requirements '

re pension income is it acceptable to now or shortly need to have had a wage/salary that enables one to earn a £27.000 per year pension just to be able to come to Spain to retire ?, can anyone tell me what kind of wage/salary that £27000 might equate to and if so they were living comfortably&nb...

...sp; off that pension why would they want to come to Spain as opposed to staying at home or looking elsewhere ?

As regards "handouts" what hangouts?

To answer your question, there will be different visa classes to migrate to Spain, because as a Third Country National, that is what British Nationals will be doing.  The end of Freedom of Movement meant the end of being able to just "move to Spain" - or retire to Spain - as so many have done, and I think this is where many people may be getting a bit tripped up.  Pre Brexit / End transition, you could just come to Spain and settle - because we had freedom of movement, it was your right.  A British passport meant no one was going to give you too much hassle, and it was easy to "fly under the Radar" if you so wished.

With the UK now becoming a "Third Country Nation", you no longer have that freedom of movement and right to settle once enjoyed.  British Nationals now are in the same boat as Canadian / Australian / American / Russian / South African nationals - they must apply to migrate to Spain, and meet the requirements applicable to anyone wishing to migrate to Spain as a Third Country National.  There is the most obvious choice which is the Non lucrative Visa.  For this you need to demonstrate that you can support yourself financially for the 5 years it takes to become a permanent resident, hence the necessity to be able to prove an income of 27k a year.  Yes - this is not a one-off - you have to prove that income at three intervals, for one year, then for two years (so 54k) then after two years, for another two years (another 54k)

This Visa Class is not aimed at retirees - unless they are wealthy.  There is the so-called Golden Visa, which can be obtained with a substantial investment in property in Spain - 500.000 € and up I think.  There is the Working Visa - but to get that you have to have skills not readily found in Spain and you need to be sponsored by a Spanish company.  There are study visas as well, but they only count 6 months out of every 12 months towards permanent residence.

There is no specific retirement visa class applicable to the incomes of British Pensioners - and make no mistake, you WILL require one of these Visas to migrate to Spain - and that is what you will do if you are lucky enough to get one of these Visas - it's not guaranteed.  You will migrate, move, take up permanent residence in another country, as surely as if you'd picked up your life and moved to Canada, America, Australia, New Zealand.  The days of "the swallow", staying here for 6 months then going back to UK for 6 months are over as far as new visa classes are concerned.  You will need to be here for 5 years to get permanent residence, and in that time you may not spend any more than 10 months aggregate out of the country.

Of those already here under the "old" system, those that have already done their 5 years now and have permanent residence can carry on as normal and spend up to 5 years continuous out of Spain, those that have not yet done their 5 years need to ensure, if they are flitting between the two countries, that they spend a minimum of 183 days a year in Spain to fulfill the requirement of continuous residency.  Those that have in the past ignored this requirement and spent 7 or more months in the UK will find after 1/1/21 that Spain becomes a lot more "energetic" in ensuring compliance, and not spending the required 183 days a year, (if you are here under the "old" rules) will result in your residencia being withdrawn.  

I'm fairly certain more than a few will scoff at this and continue to believe that "Spain needs us more than we need Spain".  They will be the ones that find out the hard way, and to their detriment, that I'm not trying to scare anyone.  It is what it is and Spain WILL enforce the rules.  

juanida

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:53pm

juanida

Very helpful member

Posts: 733

547 helpful points

Location: Sorbas

Joined: 25 Feb 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:53pm

DarioMartin wrote on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:01pm:

To answer your question, there will be different visa classes to migrate to Spain, because as a Third Country National, that is what British Nationals will be doing.  The end of Freedom of Movement meant the end of being able to just "move to Spain" - or retire to Spain - as so many have don...

...e, and I think this is where many people may be getting a bit tripped up.  Pre Brexit / End transition, you could just come to Spain and settle - because we had freedom of movement, it was your right.  A British passport meant no one was going to give you too much hassle, and it was easy to "fly under the Radar" if you so wished.

With the UK now becoming a "Third Country Nation", you no longer have that freedom of movement and right to settle once enjoyed.  British Nationals now are in the same boat as Canadian / Australian / American / Russian / South African nationals - they must apply to migrate to Spain, and meet the requirements applicable to anyone wishing to migrate to Spain as a Third Country National.  There is the most obvious choice which is the Non lucrative Visa.  For this you need to demonstrate that you can support yourself financially for the 5 years it takes to become a permanent resident, hence the necessity to be able to prove an income of 27k a year.  Yes - this is not a one-off - you have to prove that income at three intervals, for one year, then for two years (so 54k) then after two years, for another two years (another 54k)

This Visa Class is not aimed at retirees - unless they are wealthy.  There is the so-called Golden Visa, which can be obtained with a substantial investment in property in Spain - 500.000 € and up I think.  There is the Working Visa - but to get that you have to have skills not readily found in Spain and you need to be sponsored by a Spanish company.  There are study visas as well, but they only count 6 months out of every 12 months towards permanent residence.

There is no specific retirement visa class applicable to the incomes of British Pensioners - and make no mistake, you WILL require one of these Visas to migrate to Spain - and that is what you will do if you are lucky enough to get one of these Visas - it's not guaranteed.  You will migrate, move, take up permanent residence in another country, as surely as if you'd picked up your life and moved to Canada, America, Australia, New Zealand.  The days of "the swallow", staying here for 6 months then going back to UK for 6 months are over as far as new visa classes are concerned.  You will need to be here for 5 years to get permanent residence, and in that time you may not spend any more than 10 months aggregate out of the country.

Of those already here under the "old" system, those that have already done their 5 years now and have permanent residence can carry on as normal and spend up to 5 years continuous out of Spain, those that have not yet done their 5 years need to ensure, if they are flitting between the two countries, that they spend a minimum of 183 days a year in Spain to fulfill the requirement of continuous residency.  Those that have in the past ignored this requirement and spent 7 or more months in the UK will find after 1/1/21 that Spain becomes a lot more "energetic" in ensuring compliance, and not spending the required 183 days a year, (if you are here under the "old" rules) will result in your residencia being withdrawn.  

I'm fairly certain more than a few will scoff at this and continue to believe that "Spain needs us more than we need Spain".  They will be the ones that find out the hard way, and to their detriment, that I'm not trying to scare anyone.  It is what it is and Spain WILL enforce the rules.  

I think this will be just another bureaucratic nightmare when it happens, Dario!  Honestly, with all this Covid business putting everything else important to one side, I  can't see Spain being prepared for all these changes at the end of the year.

Would you know by any chance  if there's any particular advantage in changing the permanent residency certificate for a TIE card?  If there really is, I better get cracking and get it done.

DarioMartin

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47pm

DarioMartin

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Posts: 5396

6436 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47pm

juanida wrote on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:53pm:

I think this will be just another bureaucratic nightmare when it happens, Dario!  Honestly, with all this Covid business putting everything else important to one side, I  can't see Spain being prepared for all these changes at the end of the year.

Would you know by any chance  if there's any particular advantage in changing the permanent residency certificate for a TIE card?  If there really is, I better get cracking and get it done....

...

I changed mine simply because it’s an ID card so I no longer have to carry my passport around to “back up” my green Residencia card, plus should I need to leave Spain for a week or so, I am more confident of being able to cross the border with no issues.  Despite the Green Residencia cards definitely remaining valid and there being no requirement at all to swap, there’s still too many Policia / funcionarios still confused and stating that green Residencia cards are “invalid” post 31/12 - so personal choice really - but be warned, various Extranjeria are issuing the wrong cards - endorsed “card of a dependent of a citizen of the EU” instead of “Resident of the EU”

Still waiting to find out if it’s an issue or whether they’ll say “don’t worry” - the “system” will have your correct status anyway

juanida

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:57pm

juanida

Very helpful member

Posts: 733

547 helpful points

Location: Sorbas

Joined: 25 Feb 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:57pm

DarioMartin wrote on Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47pm:

I changed mine simply because it’s an ID card so I no longer have to carry my passport around to “back up” my green Residencia card, plus should I need to leave Spain for a week or so, I am more confident of being able to cross the border with no issues.  Despite the Green Residencia c...

...ards definitely remaining valid and there being no requirement at all to swap, there’s still too many Policia / funcionarios still confused and stating that green Residencia cards are “invalid” post 31/12 - so personal choice really - but be warned, various Extranjeria are issuing the wrong cards - endorsed “card of a dependent of a citizen of the EU” instead of “Resident of the EU”

Still waiting to find out if it’s an issue or whether they’ll say “don’t worry” - the “system” will have your correct status anyway

So is this done at the police station over the road from Carrefour where the Spanish passports are issued or is it the one on the other side of town which issued my existing residencia document some years ago.  Also, can you book a cita previa on Internet or is it by phone call (as I think it might be worth me doing this)?

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DarioMartin

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:02am

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 5396

6436 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:02am

juanida wrote on Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:57pm:

So is this done at the police station over the road from Carrefour where the Spanish passports are issued or is it the one on the other side of town which issued my existing residencia document some years ago.  Also, can you book a cita previa on Internet or is it by phone call (as I think i...

...t might be worth me doing this)?

It’s at the Oficina de Extranjeria, Calle Marruecos, 1 in Almería.  Yes, you can get the Cita Previa online and the form you need is the EX-23.  The Modelo 790 is the Modelo 790-012 (NOT the -052 which is for first time applications). Photograph is DNI size - 32mm x 26mm.  You will also need a Certificado de Empadronamiento less than 3 months old, your original valid passport and a copy of the passport. 

Andy999

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:23am

Andy999

Original Poster

Posts: 148

42 helpful points

Joined: 30 Sep 2018

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:23am

Can I ask Dario, what kind of work you are in as you seem to be more knowledgable than qualified solicitors? I cannot find anything relating to the 27k other than from some companies trying to drum up business . The government website states you have to be ‘self sufficient’.

If you could direct me to the official data or copy to here as a document , I’m sure lots of people would appreciate it . Many thanks 

cathejoh

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:32am

Posts: 16

2 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 14 Apr 2020

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:32am

Thank you all for your responses, I seem to opened a can of worms?? I will have a look at the Spanish Government site today.

Again thanks very much

chrisso50

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:43am

chrisso50

Super helpful member

Posts: 1111

1342 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 23 Jul 2018

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:43am

DarioMartin wrote on Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:02am:

It’s at the Oficina de Extranjeria, Calle Marruecos, 1 in Almería.  Yes, you can get the Cita Previa online and the form you need is the EX-23.  The Modelo 790 is the Modelo 790-012 (NOT the -052 which is for first time applications). Photograph is DNI size - 32mm x 26mm.  You w...

...ill also need a Certificado de Empadronamiento less than 3 months old, your original valid passport and a copy of the passport. 

As long as you have not changed your address since you obtained the original green residence slip then the existing padron will do - as we found. In some places it’s not so easy to update your padron unless you have a digital certificate.

Chris

Andy999

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:39pm

Andy999

Original Poster

Posts: 148

42 helpful points

Joined: 30 Sep 2018

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:39pm

Further to my previous point regarding moving to a spain from USA/Australia etc . Again , it does not specify an amount (27k) on their government websites . Simply says you have to prove and produce, documentation relating to your finances.

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