Petition to Revoke Article 50 - Page 41

Ignore and yes i do, have you seen the perilous state of the euro zone?  You really do need to get out more 

Perilous state of the Eurozone???

Take off the tinfoil hat, Andy ... it’s not helping!

And my question regarding your views in how Europe should be was a loaded question.  Like you, that idiot Farage also believes Europe should be a collection of independent nation states.  Given he is motivated very much by self interest, one has to ask “why?” And I think the answer can only be that in his demented fervour he sees a weakened Europe ripe for the plucking by a strong England.  Like I say - demented.

He predicts the breakup of the EU if UK leaves ..... reasoning that EU needs UK more than the other way round.  Not even a little bit accurate and further evidence of a skewed worldview that sees England at the center of the universe, resplendent once more as Britannia, ruling the waves and its empire of far flung colonies.  Sorry to burst the nostalgia bubble, but ... not ever likely to happen again.  Ever. 

The EU will not break up if UK leaves, it doesn’t really need the UK - and given the disgusting behavior of the Brexit party MEPs would probably be glad to get shot if UK.

But UK DOES need the EU, whether anyone likes to admit it or not - it’s why various politicians are trying so hard to appease the complete and utter morons that voted for Brexit whilst staying within the EU as much as possible.  There really isn’t that much support anymore for a no deal Brexit - not now it’s known what it actually means.

One is apparently in denial I fear Mr Martin. As I have suggested previously, pitch the Guardian.

Not in denial, but in reality.  If you think England will once again rise to prominence, be an economic super power and rise above the desolation of the former EU as it splits apart, you are not in denial - you’re living a fantasy.  The breakup of the EU and the rise to power of the UK again seems to be the hard core Brexiteers fantasies - but that’s all it is - it’s not based on any economic or even scientific data - it’s just a faery tale.

You say you hate the EU - hate .... for what? It’s the formation of the EU that has given you the ability to freely move to France and settle there; it’s whats given a good proportion of us the ability to settle here in Spain - I cannot understand this blind unreasoning hatred.

Ditch the Guardian .... I do not actually read the Guardian, save for the live online political item, with Andrew Sparrow et. al.    That can hardly be called biased as all they do is publish what all MPs are saying with no editorial slant at all - it’s merely a report of what’s actually said.  But ditch the Guardian - in favour of what? The Daily Express? The Mirror? The Telegraph? The Sun? (*choke* *snort*) The Spectator? They all present way too much editorial bias to be of any use (and The Daily Fail and the Sun are just rags)

I’ll stick with The Guardian online and The Independent.  That’s about the least biased news sources available 

But Andy, WHY do you “hate” the EU?  What has it done to earn this enmity? Please, please tell me why you think the EU is so evil - without resorting to the fakeries of the “EU Army”, “The Lisbon Treaty”, “UKs huge contributions that should be spent in UK” or “do you know the background / formation of the EU?”  What, precisely, is it about the EU, that earns hatred?

Faery ??? I have told you many times before why I detest the EU so I’m not going to repeat myself other than to say once again, try reading a different paper or do your own research on line.

Your normal response then - meaning you have no real supportable arguments, so just go back to saying “I’ve already told you, read a different paper”.  Weak.

And very very sad that you have obviously bought in to the whole EU is evil thing, but can’t support it with any relevant data other than to say “have you read the Lisbon Treaty?” As if that’s a magic wand!! Newsflash - it’s not.  It might give cause for concern to someone who doesn’t know what The Lisbon Treaty is, but to those of us who understand the meaning and purpose of said Treaty, you sound like someone latching on to words to try and create scare .... the big scary Lisbon Treaty ooooooooooooh!!!  Please. Save it.  Take your own advice and read something reputable, not something one would normally line the cat tray with.

I KNOW you want to blame everything on “The Lisbon Treaty” because that and your idea of what UKs contributions were has been your constant refrain whenever challenged.  We’ve now debunked the myth of how much UK paid to Brussels (only to have you then say it was irrelevant), so now let’s get down to the nitty gritty.  What, in The Lisbon Treaty, gives you cause for concern?  I speak here of the REAL Treaty of Lisbon, signed December 2007 by member states and entering into force 1 December 2009, not the debunked fake “Lisbon Treaty that comes into effect in 2020”

What, exactly, in the Treaty if Lisbon, tells you the EU is a United States of Europe, is there to imperil mankind, and do evil to the UK? Where? What passage / paragraph / point? WHAT in the treaty of Lisbon is so bad?????

I’m betting on either not getting a response, or a response that does not address the specific question but instead tells me to change my news source, open my mind or ask if I have REALLY read the treaty.

Cos I’m betting you haven’t and are just blowing smoke ..... *smack* sound of gauntlet hitting the floor .....

why on earth dont you all get on with lives there must be better things to rant about

you are where you are and the sooner all this mess is sorted the better;

Whatever your views nothing will change

You are of course entitled to your views ... as we are ours.

This has been raging now for 40 odd pages - if you have no interest in the subject matter, nor wish to debate, you are quite entitled to press the little green button that says “turn off email notifications” and not have our debate trouble you any further.

Let me know one day when it has all gone belly up due to thousands of ex pats voting for Brexit i have lived and worked in the EU for 50 yrs