Petition to Revoke Article 50 - Page 40

And for anyone who does not think that ideas about Brexit could be shifting towards remain, I’d say take a look at the Brecon & Radnorshire By-election that Lib Dems won.

Jo Swinson, leader of Lib Dems said: “We achieved a 12% swing overturning a majority of 8,000 in a seat that voted to leave the European Union. This is a stunning victory.” 

Considering Lib-Dems campaigned as a remain party in a (previously) pro-Leave area ..... Food for thought.

AndyMac1951, as promised, I have the information regarding the false information regarding UKs £11 billion contribution to EU; with many many thanks to Chrisso50, here is the information.  Please note, this is not gleaned from media, or supposition - the source is the House of Commons Library.

Each country pays a contribution to the EU budget proportional to its wealth, so wealthier countries pay more. The exact amount varies each year, but over the seven-year cycle 2007-2013 our net annual contribution was £3.8 billion, or about £63 per person or just over a pound a week. The UK’s contribution is actually much lower than other similar-sized economies such as Germany and France, because we get a special rebate. In 2018 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after rebate) of £13.2 billion. The UK received £4.3 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK's net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £8.9 billion. 

[Source : House of Commons Library]

As you can see Andy, much less than the £20 billion you posited 

All totally irrelevant as the 3 or 11 £Billions could and should have been spent in the U.K. the U.K. is running a huge debt, perhaps Crisso could tell you how much, and public services are suffering,  many people homeless, elderly having to choose between heating and eating, and yet we can support the building of motorways in Spain.   That sir is the point, charity begins at home as my old grand mother once told me.

agreed andymac however in my experiance the bulk of homelessness peaks when you have nasty tory administations like this one.

Ok.  Now this confuses me.  You initially rail about the amount contributed, then when shown to be inaccurate, you claim it’s irrelevant!

Tell me though, so you think that UKs contributions are being used elsewhere, and no other countries contributions are then used within UK?  As Chrisso pointed out, it’s not “Germany’s money” or “Frances money” or “UKs money” that is being used - it’s EU contributions as a whole, and you’d have to be willfully blind not to see that those contributions will be used in the UK as well

Now that truly is a complete load of tosh, just sit back and read what you have written.  If as the 3rd largest contributor to the EU coffers, ie we pay in more than we get back, how on earth can the UK be benefiting from either Germany or France? I shall repeat myself as it seems you are unable to crash what happens.  Irrespective of the amount of money that the U.K. hands over to the EU, that money could and should be used back in the U.K. and not funding highways in Spain and elsewhere. 

And that I’m afraid is also a complete load of quite xenophobic tosh.  I take you missed the bit where France, Germany etc contribute more than us? So it’s ok for the money they and other of the EU27 contribute to be used on the one tiny item you seem to have latched onto, i.e. roads in Spain, but any money UK contributes should only be used in UK?

No, you’ll say no doubt that we should in fact no be in the EU and therefore not contributing, so that money that would have been contributed actually gets used in UK.  Yeah. Right. Suuuuuuuuuuuure.

What I don’t get is that you decry the EU, paint it as a “United States of Europe”, rattle on about fictional ills bought about by “The Lisbon Treaty” and generally make EU out to be the evil empire .... yet you live in the South of France, paying taxes etc there and want to move to Spain - so living with and in the terrible place you paint the EU to be and by payment of taxes and use of your income in the local economy, so assist in its growth and perpetuation ......

Are you really that silly?  I love Europe but detest the EU the two are different entity’s, shame that you can not or will not see that. Yes I live in France, have done for 6 years, and will move to our place in Spain later this year.  Your ridiculous response regarding roads in Spain is quite frankly ludicrous,  UK tax payers money, not EU money, should be spent supporting the U.K. similarly French and German Tax payers money should be spent at home.  I guess you still have not bothered to read the Lisbon Treaty  and as such are in denial, perhaps you also have a problem with the fact that Macron and Guy the Belgium have called for great unity within Europe including a European Army.  I suggest you dump the Guardian and get your news from an alternative source.

T’was you, Andy, who latched on about Spanish roads - read your own posts.  I think the term is “gaslighting” - accusing others of that of which you yourself are guilty.

Yes, I’ve read the Lisbon Treaty - for gods sake, it in no ways signals the death of UK sovereignty! And please, PLEASE don’t put forth that utter rubbish about “The Lisbon Treaty that comes into effect in 2020”

How you can say that Europe and the EU are completely separate is .... worrying.  Considering that the vast majority of European residents support the EU.  

Ok, so taking your comments about tax payers money, do you then believe that each country within Europe should once again be a separate Nation State, like in pre-ECSC days? Where, exactly, do you think that would leave Europe?

And for the love of god, please, enough with the “European Army” drivel - as has been explained, it is not foreseen to be a single military force, drawn from all countries, rather each nation maintains its own military force and trains and exercises regularly together to be able to cooperate in times of crisis - like I said, as we used to do in the 80s.

“Greater Unity” does not mean “New World Order” or “Shadow Government” or whatever other terms those tinfoil-hat wearing conspiracy nutters love to surround themselves with - it means “greater cooperation” - in other words, let’s work together, instead of trying to tear each other apart.  Seems to make sense to me!  As for dumping the Guardian .... you, who quotes “The Spectator” advises ME to get a reliable news source LOL

But again, I pose the question : Do you believe that instead of the EU, each country should be a separate Nation State, responsible for its own finances, currency, trade etc?

You really do go from the sublime to the rid