Petition to Revoke Article 50 - Page 65

Thanks Chris - it’s pretty obvious the Boris is trying to sell it as a “done deal” to rally people behind him for election.  He’ll say “I’ve achieved what I set out to do, getting the Withdrawal Agreement passed”

It’ll need opposition parties to correct that untruth and say “No he hasn’t, not by a long shot”

EU seems unwilling to meddle in UK internal politics - except for Macron who seems to want to force the issue.  What turned him around from contempt of Boris to being one of his supporters?

What’s Macron been promised? Because I doubt whether it’s from altruistic ideals.  What has UK got that France wants and Boris could sell out to get his way?

Will we have a Christmas election? It doesn’t look like it after Labour appeared to set an impossible bar: asking Johnson to rule out a no-deal Brexit before backing a snap poll. And that’s not just a no-deal Brexit on January 31, which will be achieved as soon as the EU agrees to extend Article 50 until then.

‌Corbyn has a second condition – the removal of the trapdoor in the prime minister’s withdrawal agreement that means the UK could leave the post-Brexit transition period without a trade deal, which many argue is effectively a no deal.

It is unlikely Johnson will be able to come up with anything water-tight enough to get Corbyn’s support before the key election vote on Monday night.

Even if the Labour leader appears to be backing an election as long as the conditions are met, in reality he is unlikely to split the party’s MPs, with as many as 140 dead set against a snap poll. And the only way to definitively take no deal off the table is by revoking Article 50 or passing a Brexit deal.

So it’s Catch 22. Who will blink first?

Chris

If Corbyn and Co honestly believe that they speak for the Nation then he should also call for an election, something he has been doing for many months only to turn down the opportunity when it was presented.  Many of the Labour Seats and constituency’s votes overwhelmingly to leave whilst their MPs were, and are still, strongly remain. The reason Corbyn does not now want an election is that he is fully aware that the Labour Party will be wiped out in the North of the Country and else where.  They, all politicians, need to remember that they are answerable to the electorate and that they are in Parliament to govern for and on behalf of the people and not to Govern over them.

Far too many Labour MPs in Leave seats are needlessly afraid of their electorates. Some are in the wrong party...

”While 68% of Labour voters voted to Remain in the EU in 2016, what about voters in those seats which voted to Leave the EU? Dividing constituencies into Leave and Remain seats and subdividing by the 2017 winner, the BES data shows that in Labour seats where there was a Leave majority, 60% of Labour voters voted to Remain in 2016 compared to 76% in Remain seats. In other words while unsurprisingly there were more Labour leave voters in leave seats, on average there was still a substantial Remain majority. Even in those with a Leave vote of greater than 60%, a clear majority (57%) of Labour voters voted Remain in 2016.“

[British Election Study, Oct 2019)

Wisely it appears, Corbyn is picking his battles. Anybody going into battle wants the most favourable landscape, the best equipped troops and an enemy in disarray. Time is on Corbyn's side as the longer the Conseratives continue as they are they are coming into more disarray in a landscape that's changing. Corbyn has to do nothing at the moment. All he has to do is wait. Next year there will be more young voters entitled to vote. There will be that much less Conservative hard liners around. There will be no front line in the general election when it comes. These tactics worked for Ho-Chi-Minh in a far more difficult conflict. The slower things develop politically in the UK the more Labour will gain.

I see Mathew, lets just not bother with Democracy and implement the referendum, no lets just wait until enough old folk die, very liberal of you.  I really can not believe that you could say such a thing let alone go into print, simply abhorrent of you.

I think in Matthews defence that wasn’t so much a desire as a mere statement of fact.

as to the whole upholding the referendum thing .... who can say that’s what the country as a whole still actually wants?  Much more democratic to go back to the country and say “this is what we’re offered.  Do we take it or stay?”

That being said, Corbyn is playing a very dangerous game.  He’s waiting for the EU to grant an extension at least, and for Johnson to take No Deal off the table completely - these are both things that may not happen.  The EU will grant an extension, but for how long? and anything Johnson says is as believable as any other politicians promise and at this point worthless.  He’ll tell whoever he needs to whatever it is they want to hear, without any intention of keeping to that promise - we’ve now seen this on more than one occasion .... so by holding out, Corbyn could be playing right into Johnson’s ultimate desire for a No Deal..... unless Corbyn has some back-channels into the EU and knows something no-one else does, he’s playing a risky game.

Spanish elections November 10th (again!!). Here’s to Pedro Sanchez and the PSOE gaining sufficient to actually govern.

"I think in Matthew's defence that wasn’t so much a desire as a mere statement of fact"

Exactly, the usual bunkum from Andymac was as unhelpful as ever and I will not comment on any post by him.

Ditto! It’s sad if not amusing that a warped view of democracy is that once you cast a vote it’s •forever• 🦄. It can’t be changed, people cannot make up their minds or change them based on the facts present day, etc. 

It’s blindingly obvious that people do - every general election, every council election, etc. Often they do vote the same way but sometimes not, they take a different view based on the changed circumstances.

Do all people have a fixed view on issues throughout their life?! If so, when does that start? - age 5? 18? 25?

Fascinating how Leavers don’t want a #FinalSay. Whatever are they afraid of? Since March 2018 Remain has outstripped Leave at every poll. By 52/48 ironically ...

Chris

Yes people do change their minds, but those who were lied to by the then Government who voted to remain in the EEC had to wait 40 plus years before they were able to vote again. As for Mathew and his, let’s get rid of the old folk and then have another vote, I still find abhorrent and I do not give one jot if he himself does not have the decency to respond and retract his appalling statement.