Petition to Revoke Article 50 - Page 63

We are for sure in agreement there Dario.  Strange old world politics.  

An MP always has the right to stand up for what they believe. But if they vote against their party policy they can’t complain if their local party then opts to deselect them.

Mirror Politics today -

It is worth putting yourself in the shoes of a Labour MP in a marginal Leave-voting seat. They understand the public’s frustration at the failure to get Brexit done and are fully aware of the potential consequences at the election if they refuse to back Johnson’s deal. But they also have local parties whose membership is overwhelmingly remain.

This is especially important as a lot of them are still going through the re-selection process.

Nor will they wish to defy the party whip. In some cases this will be because they have an old-fashioned sense of solidarity, in others it’s because they don’t want to harm a chance for promotion.

Winning these MPs over would be easier if Johnson was certain of victory. When the result is on a knife-edge Labour MPs will be more reluctant to side with the Government for fear of being cast as the one MP who gifted Johnson his triumph.The biggest sticking point for most Labour MPs is the way the deal paves the way for the rolling back of workers’ rights and environmental safeguards. Slashing workers’ rights is not a consequence of Brexit. It was hardwired into the project from the start. The right has long disliked the EU because of the social chapter that provides workers protections from exploitative employers by guaranteeing paid holidays, health and safety safeguards and equal rights for part-time and temporary staff. And if you tear yourself away from a free trade relationship with your largest trading partner, as Johnson plans to do, then you need to find a way to compensate for the economic shortfall.

For the right that means stripping away the regulations that supposedly make you less competitive. This becomes even more of an imperative as we scramble to sign new trade deals with the US, India and other countries.The most obvious way for the Government to reassure Labour MPs is to write on the front of the Bill a pledge to maintain a level playing field on workers’ rights and protections.

But Labour MPs are reluctant to trust the Conservatives. Why should they when the path of Brexit chosen under Johnson’s deal makes the repealing of regulations and protections inevitable?

 Macroblog with Prof Wren-Lewis -

“There is a huge irony in where we are now.

“What Johnson has agreed to is basically the first deal the EU proposed. It is a deal that May said no UK Prime Minister could accept, and the deal condemned by Johnson a year ago. The backstop has now become the deal. No wonder Varadkar looked so pleased after his meeting with Johnson, and no wonder European leaders looked so pleased when the deal was finally agreed. Of course the EU could agree to something they had already proposed!

”Why has the ERG apparently agreed to this, when they said they could not possibly support it first time round? Unfortunately I cannot put myself in ERG shoes and answer that question. What does annoy me is when the BBC’s political editor praises Johnson for having got the EU to drop the backstop, when in reality he has forgotten all ideas of alternative arrangements and made the original backstop the deal. Indeed the BBC in lavishing praise on Johnson, and failing to point out his earlier rejection of almost the same proposal, is doing its bit to get the deal over the line on Saturday.

“If Johnson fails on Saturday to get parliament to vote for his deal, he has still got himself a very strong Brexit line to take into any General Election. Winning a General Election has always been his prime goal. Before that walk among the trees with Varadkar, Johnson’s election strategy had been to formally argue that he could get a deal (to keep Tory MPs on board), but hope that a sufficient number of Farage inclined Leavers took this to mean he would leave with no deal.“

Chris

Absolutely true Chrisso

Arlene Foster on BBC ulster (without a hint of irony) -

“You can’t separate part of a country from the rest of the country”

THAT’S not a view that would be popular amongst certain elements in Catalonia I imagine!!

So what do we think will happen today? Will Boris forcé the deal through? On one side you have the 21 Tories who had the whip removed seeking assurances that it wouldn’t culminate in no deal at the end of the transition period, on in the other hand you have the 28 “Spartans” seeking assurances that it WILL go to no deal after the transition period!! So it’s a numbers game - who does Boris need most? Or more to the point I think, who can he tell what they want to hear, go back on his word and still survive politically?

Moot point if there’s a G.E. and Tories don’t get in - although if Boris pulls this rabbit out of the hat he’ll diminish Labours chances of governing even further, riding a wave of populism if “promises made, promises kept” (where have I heard THAT before I wonder  ....)

There really needs to be a clean sweep in politics in Britain - none of the parties really appeal to me.  I was serious earlier when I mentioned I favoured Pedro Sánchez and the Partido Socialista Obrero Español here; they seem to have a good grounding, are fair and balanced and most of all inclusive.

Labour in the UK .... well, it’s led by Corbyn and I just can’t warm to him - I’ve tried, but I just don’t see him as a Prime Minister.  The Independent Group for Change - or whatever they are called now .... well .... what do they actually stand for? What are their core beliefs?  LibDems under Jo Swinson ..... don’t know enough about their policies; they seem fair and i of course agree with their core ideal of revocation of A50 - and hats off to them for nailing their colours to the mast and letting people know exactly what they stand for - Labour hasn’t managed to do that, just tap dance around and try and appease everyone, but it WAS a LibDem / Conservative alliance that introduced crippling austerity measures....  And conservatives .... I see them as the party of Jacob Rees-Mogg and his ilk; filthy rich, caring only about their own profit and wealth and to hell with the peasants ... I was a Tory supporter under Thatcher, but the Tory party has truly lost its way.

I guess politically speaking I am indeed closer to LibDem than anything else.  The Whigs were the dominant party in the 19th century if I recall - perhaps it’s time for a resurgence of Liberal ideals?

I got caught up with two of the RWC quarter finals today and put my interest in politics on ice for the day. My neighbour called this evening and informed me Boris Johnson had won the day in Westminster. To be honest, I felt a bit down. As the evening passed I realised my neighbour had too much wine during New Zealand V Ireland. The result helped me in my feeling down too.

But, when I turned on the television news at 6.00pm I learned the Brexit Vote did not happen. Suddenly, I was feeling better. Then I saw that 1 million people walked on Westminster asking for another Referendum.I was feeling higher. I heard Mr Johnson talking that he was not going to write to the EU seeking another extension. Again, his semantics led many astray. But, somebody (it doesn't have to be Mr Johnson) will be contacting the EU for the extension.

I don't know what happens next at Westminster, but I remain glued to the news. Terrific Drama! Bring it on!

Although that majority of 16 preventing approval of the Johnson Brexit today, looked healthy, Letwin is the first to say he will now back the PM’s deal when it returns in the form of legislation next Tuesday. If the threat of no-deal is finally removed by Johnson sending a letter to Brussels for an extension to the UK’s EU membership, Letwin won’t be alone.

So that 16 figure feels like it could be slowly washed away over the next three days, as at least six ‘whipless Tories’ like Letwin support Johnson’s deal. Hammond, Gauke and others have always said they want a deal and they will get their wish. Add in some Labour MPs in Leave areas who have just been waiting for no-deal to be legally outlawed for three months, and you can see the Johnson winning the day.

Today it felt like we had reached ‘Peak Letwin’. And although the large crowd in Parliament Square roared when the vote was announced on a huge screen, that too felt like the last dying twitch of a movement that now looks doomed.

Sadly, it now looks to me as if Brexit will happen in November. Not a soft Brexit, not even a May Brexit but we are going to get a hard Tory Brexit. Under a minority Tory government...

What will follow could be three years of transition, whilst we remain aligned with EU rules until Dec 2022 but outside of its governance structures and an EU trade deal is negotiated. 

The economic damage will continue and Brexit will not disappear as a very bizarre British obsession. Just be thankful if you already live in Spain 🇪🇸 and have secured your residency and rights to remain here.

Chris

Chris, you couldn't have said it better. I go along with every word you said in your last post. Even I am now in belief, I regret to say that the UK will exit the EU in the coming weeks.

I spent August in Mojacar. Most of my conversations were with Brits of different political persuasion. Some were stiff upper lip, some were in touch with reality. However, the person who spoke most sense was a 15 year old schoolgirl who actually cried at opportunities that won't be available to her when Brexit happens. Her father is a civil servant in the UK and he just kept saying "we're being driven into a wall and few are shouting stop."

No matter what we say here will have no bearing on the outcome. I do feel for the Brits who are in Spain for years without a residencia. I feel for the Brits who bought in Spain chasing the dream and the dream turned into a nightmare. They are now trapped in a country they don't wish to be in. They can't return to the UK because they've burned their boats. Their property is for sale for a long time and all the succour they're getting from the estate agent is drop €20K off the price and see what happens. These people are being forced into decisions that some years ago were unthinkable.

But, the stiff upper lip brigade, continue as ever. They have no problem with money and mistakenly believe the "Great" can once again be inserted into Britain. They'll get less rental income from their Spanish property when they return to the UK yearly in summer. 2019 was the first year of this and still they believe that they can eat Principle.

Where Brexit is at and where we may be going according to national radio in Ireland:-

1. Parliament votes for Brexit.

2. Parliament does not agree to the 2/3 day timescale as per Mr Johnson.

3. EU to decide if it is in favour of the timescale as per Mr Johnson's unsigned recent letter - date mooted 31st January 2020.

4. Mr Johnson may call a general election* for December. or

5. Mr Johnson to accept any time workable up to 31st January for exit date.

All the above shows democracy is alive and well in the UK.

But, the Conservatives are in power with no power. We hear that the two-thirds majority needed to call a general election may not be attained. It looks like Mr Corbyn etc with non Tories (i.e. a minority) are running the UK.

Is democracy still alive and well in the UK?

*Somehow polls show a larger majority of Tories may be elected in the election. (I would have thought this is not true).

I'm Irish, but with an interest in UK politics and their effect on all things Irish and some things in Spain. I would welcome any worthwhile comment on the future of last night's proceedings.