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Residency for an EU resident

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:36pm
32 replies606 views4 members subscribed
Orson Wellies

Posts: 40

13 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 17 Aug 2020

Hi,

A bit different my scenario.

I'm British and have lived in Greece since March 2002.  Have had residents permit since then.  Decided in summer 2020 with my partner of 31 years that we would like to move to Spain.

Started the process of selling our house in August 2020.  Partner moved to Spain in September 2020 and started residency.  I was due to follow in October after house sale.  October, Greece introduced COVID restrictions and the government buildings were closed to the public and went appointment only.  This delayed the buyer paying the tax on property until late December 2020.  Sale can't be completed without tax payment.

Anyway, I'm now only able to travel to Spain and join my partner. I thought everything would be OK as I had read a document online from the Spanish Embassy Here that stated in the "Brexit Update" paragraph, and I quote "However, UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, will maintain their free movements rights after 31st December 2020"

I contacted the Spanish Embassy in London and made them aware of my situation and asked for travel advice, but, they say as a British Citizen I can only enter Spain for a period of 90 days.  If I wish to stay longer or reside there I will have to apply for a visa.

So, it appears they are not honouring the fact I have been resident in an EU country for almost 19 years prior to the Brexit transition period.

I would take any of these "Official" documents with a pinch of salt at the moment as no one seems to know what they are doing.

DarioMartin

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:27pm

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 2837

3178 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:27pm

Orson Wellies wrote on Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:36pm:

Hi,

A bit different my scenario.

I'm British and have lived in Greece since March 2002.  Have had residents permit since then.  Decided in summer 2020 with my partner of 31 years that we would like to move to Spain.

Started the process of selling our house in August 2020.  Partner moved to Spain in September 2020 and started residency.  I was due to follow in October after house sale.  October, Greece introduced COVID restrictions and the government buildings were closed to the public and went appointment only.  This delayed the buyer paying the tax on property until late December 2020.  Sale can't be completed without tax payment.

Anyway, I'm now only able to travel to Spain and join my partner. I thought everything would be OK as I had read a document online from the Spanish Embassy Here that stated in the "Brexit Update" paragraph, and I quote "However, UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, will maintain their free movements rights after 31st December 2020"

I contacted the Spanish Embassy in London and made them aware of my situation and asked for travel advice, but, they say as a British Citizen I can only enter Spain for a period of 90 days.  If I wish to stay longer or reside there I will have to apply for a visa.

So, it appears they are not honouring the fact I have been resident in an EU country for almost 19 years prior to the Brexit transition period.

I would take any of these "Official" documents with a pinch of salt at the moment as no one seems to know what they are doing.

If your partner arrived September and established themselves, then surely you can apply as a partner of an EU resident?

Contact a lawyers that specialize in migration - e.g. Mundi Abogados - and put that question to them.

Orson Wellies

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:49pm

Orson Wellies

Original Poster

Posts: 40

13 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 17 Aug 2020

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:49pm

Kind of defeats the purpose though, as I am also a long term EU resident.  Application to join partner that has Spanish residency still requires a visa application to reside in Spain initially, which contradicts the right to free movement that residents of other EU member states are being promised.  It's all a bit messy.

DarioMartin

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:21pm

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 2837

3178 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:21pm

Orson Wellies wrote on Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:49pm:

Kind of defeats the purpose though, as I am also a long term EU resident.  Application to join partner that has Spanish residency still requires a visa application to reside in Spain initially, which contradicts the right to free movement that residents of other EU member states are being p...

...romised.  It's all a bit messy.

I meant to add to contact someone like Mundis with your initial question of being long-term resident.  If I’ve learnt anything here, it is that official word is not necessarily “official” and can often only be one funcionarios interpretation or understanding of the situation.  The different interpretations of regulations I have witnessed at Extranjeria in Almería bear testament to that

A migration lawyer that deals with Extranjeria on a daily basis can give you a solid and definitive answer on that.

Orson Wellies

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:13pm

Orson Wellies

Original Poster

Posts: 40

13 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 17 Aug 2020

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:13pm

I get what you are saying and agree that I may be more successful taking this route.  I just find it shocking when the visa department of a Spanish embassy gives out such incorrect information, effectively contradicting their own advice.  It's normally the first port of call for potential citizens. I hope things will improve once this transition period begins to settle.

DarioMartin

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:47am

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 2837

3178 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:47am

Orson Wellies wrote on Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:13pm:

I get what you are saying and agree that I may be more successful taking this route.  I just find it shocking when the visa department of a Spanish embassy gives out such incorrect information, effectively contradicting their own advice.  It's normally the first port of call for potenti...

...al citizens. I hope things will improve once this transition period begins to settle.

I wouldn’t count on it because ... Spain!  This is not meant to be disparaging, just an acceptance of how this country really is.  Officials get put into positions wayyyyy beyond their capability, or indeed understanding because of family or close friendship ties.  Not every position of course - but it happens.  The Spanish government said green residency cards were fine - yet at Alicante, Madrid and Barcelona, legal residents with “only” the green cards were turned away and refused entry - despite central government saying over and over that those cards were valid.  Clearly individual funcionarios had different views, interpretations or understandings.

Central government have said long-term residents will still have F.o.M - I’m guessing this hasn’t filtered down to embassy staff who may have their own interpretations of what that means - perhaps they think that doesn’t apply to TCNs? Who knows? This is why I suggest contacting a Migration specialist lawyer who can not only tell you what current legislation is, but if you engage them, will likely have the necessary clout to fix it if application is initially turned down.

Orson Wellies

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:07am

Orson Wellies

Original Poster

Posts: 40

13 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 17 Aug 2020

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:07am

Suddenly Greek bureaucracy seems more appealing, and I never ever thought I would utter those words. :>)

DarioMartin

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:03am

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 2837

3178 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:03am

Orson Wellies wrote on Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:07am:

Suddenly Greek bureaucracy seems more appealing, and I never ever thought I would utter those words. :>)

Spain has a wholly unhealthy love and obsession with bureaucracy; anything here will require at least three pieces of paper being stamped, copied, stapled in a certain way, handed in, verified and then swapped for more bits of paper requiring stamping, copying, stapling and handing to someone else.  The words “electronic office” I think is an anathema here..... and let’s not forget that everything is accompanied by a Modelo 720 requiring you to take to the bank and have stamped as having paid a fee of some kind.

Orson Wellies

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:45am

Orson Wellies

Original Poster

Posts: 40

13 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 17 Aug 2020

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:45am

It was pretty much the same when I moved to Greece, all copies of official documents had to be stamped and signed off by a lawyer, tax office etc.  Made for a lot of heartache dealing with officialdom.  Modelo 720 is an e-paravolo in Greece, same thing, fee needed to be paid before achieving anything in a governmental dept.

A Greek friend warned me that I would need documents just to prove I had the documents!

In defence of Greece, I will add that in the last 5 years they have come on leaps and bounds and really embraced technology.  Most things can be achieved online and official documents and applications are generally accepted online now.  The e-paravolo can be paid online with e-banking and downloaded to your phone or printed and even submitted electronically.  Great stuff happening now.Let's hope this kind of advancement will be embraced by the Spanish officials soon.
ian948

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:53am

ian948

Helpful member

Posts: 62

52 helpful points

Location: Turre

Joined: 23 Oct 2018

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:53am

Orson Wellies wrote on Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:36pm:

Hi,

A bit different my scenario.

I'm British and have lived in Greece since March 2002.  Have had residents permit since then.  Decided in summer 2020 with my partner of 31 years that we would like to move to Spain.

Started the process of selling our house in August 2020.  Partner moved to Spain in September 2020 and started residency.  I was due to follow in October after house sale.  October, Greece introduced COVID restrictions and the government buildings were closed to the public and went appointment only.  This delayed the buyer paying the tax on property until late December 2020.  Sale can't be completed without tax payment.

Anyway, I'm now only able to travel to Spain and join my partner. I thought everything would be OK as I had read a document online from the Spanish Embassy Here that stated in the "Brexit Update" paragraph, and I quote "However, UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, will maintain their free movements rights after 31st December 2020"

I contacted the Spanish Embassy in London and made them aware of my situation and asked for travel advice, but, they say as a British Citizen I can only enter Spain for a period of 90 days.  If I wish to stay longer or reside there I will have to apply for a visa.

So, it appears they are not honouring the fact I have been resident in an EU country for almost 19 years prior to the Brexit transition period.

I would take any of these "Official" documents with a pinch of salt at the moment as no one seems to know what they are doing.

OW - here is extract from EU - I added italics to sentence in question.

However it should be "easier" for you as existing eu resident plus your partner here before deadline so you should be able to move under FOM rules to join partner.

Page link : https://ec.europa.eu/immigration/general-information/already-eu_en

Going to another EU country during my long-term stay – more than 90 days

When you stay in an EU country for a long stay, usually for more than 90 days, you will generally be issued with a long-stay visa and/or a residence permit.

If your long-stay visa or residence permit has been issued by a Schengen area country, you can travel to another Schengen area country for 90 days per 180 day period. You must:

  • justify the purpose of your stay;
  • have sufficient financial resources for your stay and travel back;
  • not be considered a threat to public policy, public security or public health.

You can also pass through other Schengen area countries on the way to your host country.

To move from one EU country to another for more than 90 days, you will need a long-stay visa or a residence permit for that country. If you wish to work, study or join your family in the second country, you may have to fulfil more conditions.

For information on the rules that apply in a particular EU country, select the country on this map.


Good luck !

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