Employment - Page 2

The Royal Decree also depends on RECIPROCAL  agreements.

Spanish citizens must be allowed to continue to work and live in UK...this isnt on the cards in a No deal. !

Nope, no it doesn’t and Chrisso50 will back me on this.  The decree bought into law by Pedro Sánchez earlier this year is not dependent on reciprocal agreements - there is no quid pro quo.  The law is already in and simply waiting for Brexit to occur to take effect.  There is a 21 month implementation period during which all residents must swap to TIE; again, this is not dependent on any reciprocal agreement - it’s a done deal.

See following from La Moncloa for clarification: https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/howtoprepare/Paginas/190108residence.aspx

Spain is demanding reciprocity from the United Kingdom in one of the most sensitive aspects of Brexit: treatment of its migrants. The Spanish government has urgently passed legislation in order to protect the rights of the 365,967 Britons who are officially resident in the country, but is yet to see similar mechanisms put in place in the United Kingdom for the Spaniards who have made that country their home. The caretaker foreign minister, Josep Borrell, has already conveyed this concern to the British government of Prime Minister Boris Johnson, and has warned that, if there is no equivalent move from the UK as the country leaves the European Union, the Spanish framework for British residents will decline.

Reciprocity is necessary. And reciprocity cannot be guaranteed in half-measures – it is either there, or it isn’t

LUIS MARCO AGUIRIANO, SPAIN’S SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE EU

The future of more than half a million people – the 365,967 Britons who officially live in Spain and the 180,000 Spaniards who reside in the United Kingdom – will depend on the way that the divorce between London and Brussels is consummated. Both the governments of caretaker Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez of the Socialist Party (PSOE) and of Boris Johnson of the Conservative Party have said that they want to preserve the rights of this collective, but the formulas used to do so differ. The United Kingdom has put in place a general scheme for all European Union citizens – Spaniards among them – that, with some nuances, freezes the range of rights that they currently enjoy under the rules of the European Union. The mechanism consists of two categories: “settled status,” with very generous conditions, and so-called “pre-settled status,” which carries with it fewer rights. The official figures from the UK show a fall in the proportion of citizens who fall into the former category. In April of this year, when the system officially began, 66% of applicants received settled status. Today the percentage has fallen to 57%.

Spain has opted for a different route. In March, the government approved a law by royal decree that went into great detail to cover a potential “hard Brexit” – i.e. the UK crashing out of the bloc without a deal. This legislation covers nearly all of the facets of daily life for citizens, including the recognition of university degrees and driving licenses, as well as healthcare coverage and work permits. It also guarantees, with some limitations, the continuance of the activity of British companies that are operating in Spain.

The UK’s current Brexit minister, Steve Barclay, met last week in Madrid with Spain’s caretaker Foreign Minister Josep Borrell. The rights of citizens, one of the most symbolic elements of Brexit, were a key part of the debate. Barclay expressed his gratitude for the law that had been approved by Spain, which is the country of choice for the majority of Britons who opt to live in the EU. But Borrell warned the minister that these advantageous conditions will only be maintained if they are reciprocal, a standpoint about which the British delegation requested clarifications.

“We have told them that our royal decree will ensure that everything remains the same in the case of a no-deal Brexit,” said Luis Marco Aguiriano, Spain’s secretary of state for the EU, and who took part in the meeting with the British minister last Thursday. Speaking to EL PAÍS via telephone, he added: “But for that, reciprocity is necessary. And reciprocity cannot be guaranteed in half-measures – it is either there, or it isn’t.”

THAT sounds like double talk ... so The law will only be the law if certain conditions are met, despite the fact the law as published says nothing about that .... so someone please enlighten me - you have a law in place that deals with aspects of our lives ... nowhere does that law say it is dependan the on reciprocity, yet the Foreign Minister says it will be ..... right.  I’m sorry but that’s akin to Boris deciding not to comply with the Benn act - ministers can’t pick and choose what laws they will and will not comply with ....

... and if anyone thinks Spain is eager to wave goodbye to the income bought in by 360K odd expats ..... hmmmmmm.   Sorry - but above reporting makes absolutely no sense.

That being said, given Spain is heading back to the ballots in November because Pedro Sánchez was unable to form government, I’d say it’s anybodies guess as to what will actually happen, depending on who firms government - if it’s a PP / Ciudadanos / VOX coalition, we may have concerns ......

I think you are both possibly right regarding post Brexit U.K. arrivals wanting to work if there’s no reciprocity. 

But not for existing residents - 80% of whom are under retirement age and running businesses or self-employed or working or bringing up families. 

There are other third country nationals working here - like Russians and Ukrainians - although maybe they have to obtain work visas.

Naturally Spain insists that its own nationals working in the U.K. must not be disadvantaged. I had previously seen the article posted from El Pais and a subsequent post said that the UK govt had confirmed that it is putting in place [No Deal] legislation to protect the existing rights of present Spanish nationals in the U.K. and those arriving before December 2020. 

After Dec 2020 I think anyone arriving and seeking work in Spain (from U.K.) or U.K. (from Spain) may have to apply for a work permit, in the same way as a foreign student has to apply for a study visa.

Of course informal casual employment like cleaning or bar work may still be available, part of the hidden economy.

So does it mean that if you own an europaen passport it would be much easier to live in Spain? 

If you have a passport from an EU member country then the current rules of Residencia will still apply

I don't know what will happen but I think between us and Spain we will both be able to live and work in either country but it will not be as easy. More paperwork and restrictions...

I HOPE SO...

Thank you for answering. I live in the UK for 38 years now but I am German and I never changed my passport. So I still have my German one. So it's kind of a bonus right now :)

If you have a passport from a country that is still an EU member you will retain FoM rights. If not and you hold a UK passport - and if the UK becomes a 'third country' - then your FoM rights will be more limited, especially if you were not resident in Spain on 'B' Day.