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Happy Days for Second Home Owners ? - Page 2

L181SKY

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:03pm

L181SKY

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:03pm

Matthew wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:38pm:

Yes, I'm pessimestic and no apologies from me either. Let's sit back and take some breath. This is like having a winning bet on the Grand National only to find a few minutes later that the horse was disqualified. What are we now reading? - Free Newspapers that are gasping for something to write a...

...bout and they can't find anything but let's bring up what the Brits want but can't have  That's the way I see this on 20th November 2023. And I bet this time next year the same free papers will be talking about this again.

I'm just hearing estate agents talking this up "Of course, in a few months you'll be able to spend as much time as you want in Spain and the new high speed rail will shortly be up and running too." 

You'll find more facts in The Beano. 

Yours faithfully

Glass Half Empty

Matt

I don’t think a newspaper disclosing that the Spanish Government has petitioned the EU to allow this to happen is “Grasping for something to write about “ !   We are all adults here and realise it will take Some time, but I don’t think Years this time. 

Matthew

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:11pm

Matthew

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:11pm

There are good posters on this thread and I am surprised at their innocence on this matter. Let's see the "acid" test:- If there is a grain of truth in that newspaper article(s) about 250,000 properties are about to come on the market for sale in Mojacar Playa and its environs. It ain't gonna happen though for many years to come (even if it does happen). 

I'm just thinking some of the ladies' groups that meet regularly on the Playa in the Olive Tree or wherever. Janice brings up the subject and to be met by guffaws within seconds from the rest of the ladies.

Meanwhile, our Beano readers think this is going to happen. Nawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!*

*Translation:- Nooooooooooooooooooo!

Devo has just jumped to being my Number One Poster. [I nearly typed "Poser"]

I've relegated Stuart (something I thought I'd never do). Only way to treat 'alf drinkers.

I've promoted Geordie though.

DarioMartin

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:57pm

DarioMartin

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:57pm

Just to throw some cold water on you all and give you a dose of realism, Spain's Minister of Tourism has ALREADY stated on more than one occassion that Spain cannot act unilaterally as they are a signatory of the Schengen Accord.  Unlike some other country that we shall not mention, Spain tends to take its international agreements quite seriuously and doesn't just ignore then when it so suits.

So why can't Spain introduce a "Spain only" visa? 

Because as stated they are a signatory to the Schengen Accord.  The Schengen accord alloows borderless travel throughout the Schengen region.  Introducing a "Spain Only" Visa would negate the ability for people to travel without borders as those with a "Spain Only" visa would find themselves in breach of Schengen regulations should they cross the border.

New Zealand passport holders are not subject to Schengen regs but that is because various EU countries signed agreements with NZ prior to Schengen taking effect.  Ergo their agreement takes precedence (They still can't stay as long as they like, the difference is after say 90 days in Spain, they don't have to exit the Schengen, but they DO have to exit Spain)

Any agreement signed with an individual country would therefore be voided by the previously signed Schengen Treaty

The articles quoted are unfortunately Clickbait.  I am EXTREMELY dubious that Spain has petitioned the EU for this, because as stated, Minister for Tourism has already said "NO".... plus the paper in question has a rather bad reputation for inventing stories on slow news days.  None of the National papers are carrying this story and I would have thought there would be at least a mention in El Pais.  But ...Nothing .... nada.  Pedro Sanchez has bigger issues he is facing now than worrying about a "Spain Only" visa for people to get around the Schengen laws - like holding a coalition together.  Introducing the possibility of a Visa like this would have PP up in arms and causing more trouble than they already are.  Sorry, but there ARE NO plans to give anyone "Spàin Only" visas, not Second Home owners, not Brit tourists - no one.  Sorry.  It's just another media beat up trying to raise peoples hopes and invent a story, but it isn't actually happening.

Hey, don't take my word, I really don't care one way or the other; just don't get your hopes up because otherwise you are headed for a massive dissapointment.

There already exists a mechanism whereby travellers can stay longer than 90 in 180 though

its called "Rejoin the EU".
You really can't be out of the club and still expect the benefits - well, you can, but those expectations will again lead to large dissapointments

Stuart47

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:00pm

Stuart47

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Joined: 30 Jul 2020

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:00pm

Matthew wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:11pm:

There are good posters on this thread and I am surprised at their innocence on this matter. Let's see the "acid" test:- If there is a grain of truth in that newspaper article(s) about 250,000 properties are about to come on the market for sale in Mojacar Playa and its environs. It ain't gonna hap...

...pen though for many years to come (even if it does happen). 

I'm just thinking some of the ladies' groups that meet regularly on the Playa in the Olive Tree or wherever. Janice brings up the subject and to be met by guffaws within seconds from the rest of the ladies.

Meanwhile, our Beano readers think this is going to happen. Nawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!*

*Translation:- Nooooooooooooooooooo!

Devo has just jumped to being my Number One Poster. [I nearly typed "Poser"]

I've relegated Stuart (something I thought I'd never do). Only way to treat 'alf drinkers.

I've promoted Geordie though.

There you go again Matthew, absolutely no positivity when it conflicts with your hatred for and negative narrative of Brexit.
No desire of hope, no will for things to improve. 

The reason is, if the 90 day rule is relaxed it will expose you for what you are. So, without debate your only defence is instead revert to attempting to belittle others.

I have a degree of respect for you Matthew so don't be such a wet squid, try and drag yourself away from being a Brexit depressive and where there is some hope try to grasp it. It will make you a happier person and probably extend your life. Happy people live longer,  

Matthew

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:11pm

Matthew

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Joined: 16 May 2018

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:11pm

Stuart47 wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:00pm:

There you go again Matthew, absolutely no positivity when it conflicts with your hatred for and negative narrative of Brexit.
No desire of hope, no will for things to improve. 

The reason is, if the 90 day rule is relaxed it will expose you for what you are. So, without debate your only defence is instead revert to attempting to belittle others.

...

...

I have a degree of respect for you Matthew so don't be such a wet squid, try and drag yourself away from being a Brexit depressive and where there is some hope try to grasp it. It will make you a happier person and probably extend your life. Happy people live longer,  

Again Stuart you ignore the fact that I would love to see the 90 day rule relaxed. I hope it happens,  but you're talking years away. Tell you what though, if there is a scintilla of truth in that newspaper article there will be long queues outside Price-Browne, Mojacar Estates, Realtors Almeria, New Wave Villas etc tomorrow morning at 10.00am. And if it were true I'd be in one of the queues too. But, it's not true. I deal in facts, not hearsay. 

Still I'd love that pint with you!

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Geordiemark

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:33pm

Geordiemark

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Joined: 22 Oct 2021

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:33pm

DarioMartin wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:57pm:

Just to throw some cold water on you all and give you a dose of realism, Spain's Minister of Tourism has ALREADY stated on more than one occassion that Spain cannot act unilaterally as they are a signatory of the Schengen Accord.  Unlike some other country that we shall not mention, Spain te...

...nds to take its international agreements quite seriuously and doesn't just ignore then when it so suits.

So why can't Spain introduce a "Spain only" visa? 

Because as stated they are a signatory to the Schengen Accord.  The Schengen accord alloows borderless travel throughout the Schengen region.  Introducing a "Spain Only" Visa would negate the ability for people to travel without borders as those with a "Spain Only" visa would find themselves in breach of Schengen regulations should they cross the border.

New Zealand passport holders are not subject to Schengen regs but that is because various EU countries signed agreements with NZ prior to Schengen taking effect.  Ergo their agreement takes precedence (They still can't stay as long as they like, the difference is after say 90 days in Spain, they don't have to exit the Schengen, but they DO have to exit Spain)

Any agreement signed with an individual country would therefore be voided by the previously signed Schengen Treaty

The articles quoted are unfortunately Clickbait.  I am EXTREMELY dubious that Spain has petitioned the EU for this, because as stated, Minister for Tourism has already said "NO".... plus the paper in question has a rather bad reputation for inventing stories on slow news days.  None of the National papers are carrying this story and I would have thought there would be at least a mention in El Pais.  But ...Nothing .... nada.  Pedro Sanchez has bigger issues he is facing now than worrying about a "Spain Only" visa for people to get around the Schengen laws - like holding a coalition together.  Introducing the possibility of a Visa like this would have PP up in arms and causing more trouble than they already are.  Sorry, but there ARE NO plans to give anyone "Spàin Only" visas, not Second Home owners, not Brit tourists - no one.  Sorry.  It's just another media beat up trying to raise peoples hopes and invent a story, but it isn't actually happening.

Hey, don't take my word, I really don't care one way or the other; just don't get your hopes up because otherwise you are headed for a massive dissapointment.

There already exists a mechanism whereby travellers can stay longer than 90 in 180 though

its called "Rejoin the EU".
You really can't be out of the club and still expect the benefits - well, you can, but those expectations will again lead to large dissapointments

You really do hate the Brits don't you Dario? You a shitting yourself to deny anything to do with Brits getting better access to the homes the have bought and paid for in Spain.

There is 100% a move going on in France to do something about the 90/180 day rule. Nothing may come of it, who knows, I certainly don't? If France goes for it, I'm sure pressure on Spain will increase to follow suit. Will it happen? Again I don't know, but as sure as eggs are eggs, neither do you. As to what a politician says, that changes with the wind and is what the best interest for the politician and/or his party at that particular time.

But you're negativity on a subject that you have no real knowledge of is staggering. Yes, you know what the current rules are. Will it change? Don't know. Yes, every Brit with a holiday home is hoping for some sort of change in the rules and can you blame them.

L181SKY

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:50pm

L181SKY

Original Poster

Very helpful member

Posts: 999

690 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:50pm

DarioMartin wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:57pm:

Just to throw some cold water on you all and give you a dose of realism, Spain's Minister of Tourism has ALREADY stated on more than one occassion that Spain cannot act unilaterally as they are a signatory of the Schengen Accord.  Unlike some other country that we shall not mention, Spain te...

...nds to take its international agreements quite seriuously and doesn't just ignore then when it so suits.

So why can't Spain introduce a "Spain only" visa? 

Because as stated they are a signatory to the Schengen Accord.  The Schengen accord alloows borderless travel throughout the Schengen region.  Introducing a "Spain Only" Visa would negate the ability for people to travel without borders as those with a "Spain Only" visa would find themselves in breach of Schengen regulations should they cross the border.

New Zealand passport holders are not subject to Schengen regs but that is because various EU countries signed agreements with NZ prior to Schengen taking effect.  Ergo their agreement takes precedence (They still can't stay as long as they like, the difference is after say 90 days in Spain, they don't have to exit the Schengen, but they DO have to exit Spain)

Any agreement signed with an individual country would therefore be voided by the previously signed Schengen Treaty

The articles quoted are unfortunately Clickbait.  I am EXTREMELY dubious that Spain has petitioned the EU for this, because as stated, Minister for Tourism has already said "NO".... plus the paper in question has a rather bad reputation for inventing stories on slow news days.  None of the National papers are carrying this story and I would have thought there would be at least a mention in El Pais.  But ...Nothing .... nada.  Pedro Sanchez has bigger issues he is facing now than worrying about a "Spain Only" visa for people to get around the Schengen laws - like holding a coalition together.  Introducing the possibility of a Visa like this would have PP up in arms and causing more trouble than they already are.  Sorry, but there ARE NO plans to give anyone "Spàin Only" visas, not Second Home owners, not Brit tourists - no one.  Sorry.  It's just another media beat up trying to raise peoples hopes and invent a story, but it isn't actually happening.

Hey, don't take my word, I really don't care one way or the other; just don't get your hopes up because otherwise you are headed for a massive dissapointment.

There already exists a mechanism whereby travellers can stay longer than 90 in 180 though

its called "Rejoin the EU".
You really can't be out of the club and still expect the benefits - well, you can, but those expectations will again lead to large dissapointments

I will enjoy reading what you think when it does happen lol.   

L181SKY

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:53pm

L181SKY

Original Poster

Very helpful member

Posts: 999

690 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:53pm

DarioMartin wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:57pm:

Just to throw some cold water on you all and give you a dose of realism, Spain's Minister of Tourism has ALREADY stated on more than one occassion that Spain cannot act unilaterally as they are a signatory of the Schengen Accord.  Unlike some other country that we shall not mention, Spain te...

...nds to take its international agreements quite seriuously and doesn't just ignore then when it so suits.

So why can't Spain introduce a "Spain only" visa? 

Because as stated they are a signatory to the Schengen Accord.  The Schengen accord alloows borderless travel throughout the Schengen region.  Introducing a "Spain Only" Visa would negate the ability for people to travel without borders as those with a "Spain Only" visa would find themselves in breach of Schengen regulations should they cross the border.

New Zealand passport holders are not subject to Schengen regs but that is because various EU countries signed agreements with NZ prior to Schengen taking effect.  Ergo their agreement takes precedence (They still can't stay as long as they like, the difference is after say 90 days in Spain, they don't have to exit the Schengen, but they DO have to exit Spain)

Any agreement signed with an individual country would therefore be voided by the previously signed Schengen Treaty

The articles quoted are unfortunately Clickbait.  I am EXTREMELY dubious that Spain has petitioned the EU for this, because as stated, Minister for Tourism has already said "NO".... plus the paper in question has a rather bad reputation for inventing stories on slow news days.  None of the National papers are carrying this story and I would have thought there would be at least a mention in El Pais.  But ...Nothing .... nada.  Pedro Sanchez has bigger issues he is facing now than worrying about a "Spain Only" visa for people to get around the Schengen laws - like holding a coalition together.  Introducing the possibility of a Visa like this would have PP up in arms and causing more trouble than they already are.  Sorry, but there ARE NO plans to give anyone "Spàin Only" visas, not Second Home owners, not Brit tourists - no one.  Sorry.  It's just another media beat up trying to raise peoples hopes and invent a story, but it isn't actually happening.

Hey, don't take my word, I really don't care one way or the other; just don't get your hopes up because otherwise you are headed for a massive dissapointment.

There already exists a mechanism whereby travellers can stay longer than 90 in 180 though

its called "Rejoin the EU".
You really can't be out of the club and still expect the benefits - well, you can, but those expectations will again lead to large dissapointments

Ok,  another article below ,     also, BTW , you can get a 180 day Holiday visa from France, then tour the EU ,  AND add on your allowed 90 days in Shengen   so, things Are changing and you and Mathew have put your feelings across for years now that you Love the 90/180 ,please don’t deny   schadenfreude,  you do realise people invested in Spain and are Not allowed to use their legal properties because the rug was pulled out from under them?   So what’s with the attitude ALL THE TIME?    You are Always there to pour the cold water.   


New visa joy for Brits with holiday homes as Spain joins France in calling for the post-Brexit 90-day visit limit to be axed, admitting it is harming their economy Brits who own second homes in Spain may soon be able to stay longer than the post-Brexit 90-day limit, with the Spanish government joining calls to axe the unpopular rule.

Under the law, Britons can stay in their holiday homes for just 90 out of every 180 days. In order to stay longer, they must apply for a long-stay visa of up to six months.

Now, the Spanish government has admitted that the rule, which limits how long British travellers can spend in European Union countries without a visa, is having a negative impact. 



Unfortunately, the rule is not something Spain has established by itself or can get rid of,' the country's acting Minister of Tourism, Hector Gomez said. 'It is in our interest to lobby and convince the EU that we can try to work an exception with them. But the solution must come from them.' 

It comes after France's senate voted through an amendment to the immigration law that will give British second homeowners the automatic right to a long-stay visa, after politicians there said UK tourists had been 'punished by Brexit'.       Andrew Hesselden, Campaign Director and founder of '180 Days in Spain', which campaigns for Brits' free movement in the country, told the Majorca Daily Bulletin that he is 'delighted to see French senators recognise the injustice of the situation that British part-year residents have found themselves in since Brexit'.

He added that his campaign's members 'remain hopeful of similar recognition in Spain for everyone affected'.

Now developments appear to be happening in Spain, with Gomez confirming earlier this week that he had held an 'important meeting' with the UK's Director of Consular Affairs and Crisis, Jennifer Anderson, at the Foreign Office. 

The pair 'discussed issues of interest regarding the stays of British tourists in Spain and discussed collaboration projects for future seasons,' he said. This is understood to have included the 90-day cap.

The UK is Spain's biggest and most profitable tourism market, with almost double the number of Brits visiting the country than German tourists last year.

Data from Spain's National Institute of Statistics (INE) shows that two million people travelled to Spain from the UK last year, constituting 23.8 per cent of the total number of visitors. 

Under Schengen Area rules, non-EU citizens, including those from the UK, entering the territory under the visa-free regime can only stay for a maximum of 90 days out of every 180 days.Overstays can attract €10,000 fines, deportation and bans   


DarioMartin

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:08pm

DarioMartin

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Posts: 5418

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Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:08pm

L181SKY wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:53pm:

Ok,  another article below ,     also, BTW , you can get a 180 day Holiday visa from France, then tour the EU ,  AND add on your allowed 90 days in Shengen   so, things Are changing and you and Mathew have put your feelings across for years now that you Love th...

...e 90/180 ,please don’t deny   schadenfreude,  you do realise people invested in Spain and are Not allowed to use their legal properties because the rug was pulled out from under them?   So what’s with the attitude ALL THE TIME?    You are Always there to pour the cold water.   


New visa joy for Brits with holiday homes as Spain joins France in calling for the post-Brexit 90-day visit limit to be axed, admitting it is harming their economy Brits who own second homes in Spain may soon be able to stay longer than the post-Brexit 90-day limit, with the Spanish government joining calls to axe the unpopular rule.

Under the law, Britons can stay in their holiday homes for just 90 out of every 180 days. In order to stay longer, they must apply for a long-stay visa of up to six months.

Now, the Spanish government has admitted that the rule, which limits how long British travellers can spend in European Union countries without a visa, is having a negative impact. 



Unfortunately, the rule is not something Spain has established by itself or can get rid of,' the country's acting Minister of Tourism, Hector Gomez said. 'It is in our interest to lobby and convince the EU that we can try to work an exception with them. But the solution must come from them.' 

It comes after France's senate voted through an amendment to the immigration law that will give British second homeowners the automatic right to a long-stay visa, after politicians there said UK tourists had been 'punished by Brexit'.       Andrew Hesselden, Campaign Director and founder of '180 Days in Spain', which campaigns for Brits' free movement in the country, told the Majorca Daily Bulletin that he is 'delighted to see French senators recognise the injustice of the situation that British part-year residents have found themselves in since Brexit'.

He added that his campaign's members 'remain hopeful of similar recognition in Spain for everyone affected'.

Now developments appear to be happening in Spain, with Gomez confirming earlier this week that he had held an 'important meeting' with the UK's Director of Consular Affairs and Crisis, Jennifer Anderson, at the Foreign Office. 

The pair 'discussed issues of interest regarding the stays of British tourists in Spain and discussed collaboration projects for future seasons,' he said. This is understood to have included the 90-day cap.

The UK is Spain's biggest and most profitable tourism market, with almost double the number of Brits visiting the country than German tourists last year.

Data from Spain's National Institute of Statistics (INE) shows that two million people travelled to Spain from the UK last year, constituting 23.8 per cent of the total number of visitors. 

Under Schengen Area rules, non-EU citizens, including those from the UK, entering the territory under the visa-free regime can only stay for a maximum of 90 days out of every 180 days.Overstays can attract €10,000 fines, deportation and bans   


*Sigh*  There's just no hope for some people.  

It isn't happening.  Believe me or don't, I really don't care, just as I said, don't get excited and get your hopes up because they WILL be dashed.

I still find it amazing that it hasn't been reported in any of the Spanish National Dailies.  Guess they don't want to acknowledge they've been scooped by the ... what was it? Oh yes .... The Majorca Daily Bulletin ....

We'll see.  And I bet we are having the same conversation next year

Quite apart from the fact there is some rather creative reporting in this wonderful organ:
"The UK is Spain's biggest and most profitable tourism market, with almost double the number of Brits visiting the country than German tourists last year."  ... nicely forgetting to mention that French tourism outstripped Brits last year ....

DarioMartin

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:13pm

DarioMartin

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Posts: 5418

6472 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:13pm

Geordiemark wrote on Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:33pm:

You really do hate the Brits don't you Dario? You a shitting yourself to deny anything to do with Brits getting better access to the homes the have bought and paid for in Spain.

There is 100% a move going on in France to do something about the 90/180 day rule. Nothing may come of it, who knows, I certainly don't? If France goes for it, I'm sure pressure on Spain will increase to follow suit. Will it happen? Again I don't know, but as sure as eggs are eggs, neither do you...

.... As to what a politician says, that changes with the wind and is what the best interest for the politician and/or his party at that particular time.

But you're negativity on a subject that you have no real knowledge of is staggering. Yes, you know what the current rules are. Will it change? Don't know. Yes, every Brit with a holiday home is hoping for some sort of change in the rules and can you blame them.

Trying to make out why you think I hate Brits?  I have nothing against any particular nationality.  I do dislike exceptionalism, that belief that a certain nationality is SO special that they have to be dealt with differently because they think they are so important.  Perhaps that's what you feel coming across?  my intense dislike of the "They need our money, they can't do without the Brits" attitude.

As to "But you're negativity on a subject that you have no real knowledge of is staggering" .... who says I have no real knowledge? I've made it my business to integrate, keep up to date, and meet and talk to people.  So really that's just your assumption because what I say doesn't gel with what you want to believe.  I can't help that.  Dry your eyes princess.

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