Wearing A Mask in public - Page 5

Here is an analogy for you using your logic. You want to keep mosquitos out your house. You don't want to get bitten. What do you do...ok install some fly screens it keeps 90% of the mossies out but still 10% find a way in. So you buy an ultra violet zapper to try to zap the remaining 10%. However, it works only on 50% of the 10% but you've managed to keep out 95%. I then decide to cover myself with various repellants which keeps most of the mossies at bay and I am 99% protected..

Now compare my house with yours. You say:

Flyscreens don't work and I'm not going to use them

Ultra violet doesn't work and I'm not going to buy one

Repellants are not 100% effective so I am not going to use them.

So in this example who is more likely to get bitten at home by a mosquito?

Your straw man theory doesn't hold up. You need a combination of measures. None work perfectly but together they help. 

You can always check the ONS for figures but for convenience here are just a couple. 

As regard statistics. Yesterdays report from the National Office of Statistics (UK) said: 21 December 2021

The age-standardised mortality rate (ASMR) for deaths due to coronavirus (COVID-19) increased significantly in England in November 2021.

There were 69.3 deaths per 100,000 people due to COVID-19 in England in November 2021, compared with 50.8 in October 2021 – a statistically significant increase.

The cumulative monthly totals for 2019 and 2020 (provisional) in England and Wales are:

• 2020 monthly deaths: 607,169
• 2019 monthly deaths: 529,553

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/4november2021

https://www.longcovidkids.org/post/child-covid-19-cases-long-covid-hospital-admissions-deaths-19th-december-2021-1

You only need to be bitten once and you have malaria?

The analogy I made about netting - you perfectly repeated, unless it is one hundred percent foolproof what is the point?

Two years and three months at least we have known about the virus and it has not going away according to three national scientific officers. What we have been doing is not working.

Think again. A new strategy is needed before we destroy society completely. These people died regardless of any strategy employed, how does that work?

YAWNNNNNNNNN.

So, I didn't have time last night to answer the numbers that you have found. I have had to be in Malaga Almeria and a dozen other places recently before my licence expires and my apartment looks like a storeroom as I now have everything from storage. So, -

Two things

Any two points can be made to make a straight line. Generally accepted view if we consider the weather or things like deaths that vary a lot each year you make a comparison with the average over the last ten years, not the year before or the year after. In itself it would not be taken as a serious proposition

This is no criticism of anyone here, this is general puzzlement on my part. When I looked into the truth behind the perennial argument about ICUs NHS funding 15 years ago and the arguments people were making about influenza killing people or not. I checked out the numbers and could not for the life of me understand why the numbers of deaths were so low.

Take the 629 thousand figure and assume a population of 63 million it makes the arithmatic a little easier. That is 1% of the UK population died. Only 1%?? That means we are all going to live to be 100? Surely the number of people should be the population divided by average age of death which I think now is around 82 years of age. I don't understand this and surely there is a more complex answer than straight numbers amd if anyone knows how to explain this please do.

Now. I used the top figure given of 629K and from memory the top figure for a years deaths is about the same as when I was looking into how many flu deaths happen every year. The lowest was 480K, again from memory. The average ten year death figure was between 560 - 570K but this was done over ten years ago and so now that figure may have altered

The difference in each years figures can easily be ten percent and maybe 15% in exceptional years was what I found and what I read. Take the ten percent figure? Plus or minus 56K makes a maximum of 626K and 504K for a mimimum. Where does the Covid number come from? When I last bothered to look it was over 126K but it does not appear in the numbers. (126K is th e number of Cancer deaths every year for reference)

More people die in winter than in summer in the UK. Nobody argues this. What does get argued is why. The heating allowance campaign in the UK successfully argued that cold damp climates were causing 'excess deaths' (the expression used) but may be better explained as premature deaths. The reason it took so long is that this is a very complex area with many issues and so the campaign had to ramp up the arguments with far more evidence than taking a good winter and then following it with a bad winter. 2019-20 winter was the warmest for many counties in Europe.

The increase in things like Noravirus and Influenza rises as soon as the weather gets into autumn, now influenza seems to have disappeared and Covid has taken its place, as reported in several countries.

If you are still sceptical about these facts one thing you should do. Look at the graphs aof deaths, infections, whatever and mark on the graph where lockdown started and where it finished. Also mark any occasions that mask wearing was mandatory. Notice how in any country you care to look at there will be no difference in th etrend of that graph, up or down? The British Medical Hournal printed an article by two doctors who did this kind of exercise for 160 countries (were there that many lockdowns?) and found no evidence for effect. None.

At some point there I'll deal with the rest of the number that have been presented but I have charitable efforts to do today and to remove the obstacles of furniture between me and a decent cup of tea.

If anyone wants to discuss this or ask questions with me in private rather than enter the fray of the forum, please do so and I will try to answer what I can, honestly?

well it is law now that masks must be worn outside and inside so no debate unless you want to be fined

Your straw man logic:

Masks are not effective. Waste of time wearing them.

Seatbelts don't help in all accidents. Waste of time wearing them.

Planes crash. Don't go on one.

Most accidents at home happen on Wednesdays. Wednesdays are dangerous. Go out.

Medications have side effects. Don't take them.

I'll let you argue with the Office of National Statistics about the efficacy of their figures.

I hope that any regular person here on this forum gets the point that no one barrier is totally effective but the more barriers you have the less likely you are to be affected. That my friend is common sense.

Nothing to do with planes crashing, seatbelts nor accidents at home.

You are just using emotional and intuitive  arguments to rubbish mine. Anyone with their own mind can look at the arguments and decide. Furthermore they can find the evidence for what I am saying here and see that I am making valid points. Trying to rubbish what I am saying by using these comparisons does your case no good.

Covid 19 has been heree for over two years - how much longer.

Ask yourself why the UK and Spanish government never went into lockdown until  all cases were zero. In fact no one has done this. New Zealand seems to be the only one to lock the border and keep it at bay for any time and now they have changed that stance, accepting that they could not keep it at bay forever.

If this virus was as deadly as you think the government would have made some alternative arrangements about lockdown etcetera?

Just had a notice of this article. No comment from me but it discusses many of the points raised here and is entirely in context.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/22/omicron-covid-restrictions-young-people?utm_term=61c40255c13c5e4a5a9ea444c7553beb&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

So, the ONS does not tell us how many children died?

Further it does not tell us about deaths with co-morbidities, just the number of kids who had medical treatment for Covid.

Both of which are reported by Covidkids. As a parent I would say I am not given anything to make judgement on, I am expected to take the righteous mantra that ll our kids will die, we will all die....

So, I hope that you are all going to wear your masks indoors now and in restaurants and bars. Clearly it must be mandatory to wear your mask at all times?

No, you can share your germs with your family, (so that they spread them to others) you don't have to wear them in public parks if you are in public parks because the air in public parks is miraculously clean. Still it is not as ridiculous as four people travelling in a car wearing masks.

Remember, masks at all times and save the universe! :)