Wearing A Mask in public - Page 4

How can you threaten to block someone just because you personally do not agree with their opinions and facts?

Shay has put forward a far more thoughtful and fact based argument than I have seen anywhere for a long time. If you disagree with him by all means say so and put forward the facts which back up your opinions.

Like Shay I have been trying to find out if face coverings are effective but can only conclude they may have a minor benefit in stopping some water droplets if you sneeze. I don't think it is correct to compare the cloth coverings or disposable paper "made in China" masks we all use to proper surgical quality masks.

Having said that I wear one around other people because it reduces their anxiety.

I also believe it is good to have a polite debate about issues like covid and we must all try to avoid the internet trend of  hating people with different opinions or blocking them.

When I come across somebody putting the life or health of somebody else at risk it is unacceptable for me to engage with that person on a like/like situation. While I agree with free speech, there has to be exceptions. I respect life and the right of others to have a healthy life. 

I have no problem with people not wearing masks or indeed sneezing/coughing/refusing to sanitise hands etc. But, let them have respect for those who comply with all the restrictions. Only a few months ago (pre Omicron) we had a patient in an Irish hospital refusing all medical/nursing aid when he became terminally ill due to Covid. He signed himself out of hospital and his event was recorded and played in the main evening news on Irish television. There were doctors and hospital staff advising the guy of his awful situation and of course, there were the anti vaxers/anti mask wearers/anti everything brigade shouting at him about his civil rights etc. The man in question died two days later of Covid. That was his choice egged on by the brigade who didn't care a whit about  the health or life of anybody else. 

Respect must be earned and the lack of respect for others and their rights for me is a no-no. Life is precious, let's live it and respect the rights of others to live it.

Yet, you and the authorities are doing the same - telling everyone that we must do what you think is right. Even when I can prove you wrong or at least provide a rational viewpoint.

The rational voice between a lunatic fringe and the vast majority of people who have learned nothing because they want to believe the mantra that they are winning the war by increased regulation and restriction, which clearly is not solving the problem is being lost and so are family relations, businesses and large parts of life that you clearly want to enjoy. Time to step back and take a clear view of what is happening to society and what lack of benefit is achieved by certificates and rules?

And I will only be talked out of this approach when someone can prove me wrong?

Shay with respect (and it's only my opinion) no matter what you hear about Covid, Omicron or anything else you'll just drive on regardless. I haven't put your posts up for ignoring and I shouldn't have said I'd block your posts. 

Matthew, please don’t use phrases like “take back control “. It makes you sound like a brexiteer. 

Hi, You may be surprised to hear this but I largely agree with your principles.

I think where we see differently is our interpretation of Shay's posts. I do not think he is telling people to do anything that puts other people in danger, but that depends on weather you think face coverings stop the spread of the covid virus. I would agree that Shays posts were out of order if he told people they must stop wearing face coverings.

I also agree with your point that the guy ill with covid was wrong if he knowingly spread it, thankfully such examples are very rare and I believe pretty much anyone (including Shay) would stay home if they had covid (or flu etc)

I understand your reaction to refuse to engage with people you feel are putting the lives of others at risk. Here I have a slightly different view as I personally would engage and try to persuade these people to my viewpoint. My analogy here is that I strongly disagree with drink driving as over the years I have had two friends killed by drunk drivers. I still engage with people who drink and drive and have friends who do so, I just make my point and "agree to disagree" but remain friends.

I do believe we as a world need a better debate on covid. The actions of governments to slow the spread will have saved lives by allowing treatments to be developed and preventing hospitals being overwhelmed as they were in Italy. The actions however will have cost some lives, for example there have been 740,000 less cancer referrals in uk since the outbreak as people are staying home and not seeking treatment. I find it worrying when people are more afraid of covid than cancer. 

I guess my conclusion is that both sides of every argument should be heard - provided they are not based on untruths - to allow the public to see all the facts and understand.

Merry Christmas and hopefully a Happy New Year - I for one will see a few of my closest family but will avoid the hugging and kissing and I will have a window open (well half open I am in the UK!)

There is no analogy with drunk drivers. The two situations are quite different.

Brian, all you have done is repeat the comments that started this thread in the first place. It is called microaggression, telling me what your beliefs are over what I think is more practicable. It is fine I will keep posting facts and arguments in return.

The problem is not nightclubs, nor restaurants, nor other groups that people blame - it is us, all of us and the way we live. The Omicron variant spread to 58 countries in three weeks and that was only the cases detected. DESPITE testing at airports, national borders etc. Despite the restrictions of even going to some countries.

The problem is that we live in some form of groups based on societies and then BELIEVE that regulating this in some way is making a difference. We are still in the same position after more than two years? How did any of this help? The weather has had more effect on Covid than any man-made measure.

I would also remind any reader that the varients are only detected in people seeking medical help or by chance testing when travelling abroad. 34 to 40% of ADULTS, not children, depending on which Chief Medical Officer you listen to, show no symptoms, nothing. how does society deal with that fact?

Do we school all children at home, everyone works at home, we talk through perspex screens, never hold hands, let alone have sex (pass the hand gel darling) etcetera? How many years of activity like this will it take? The vaccine is only effective for 6months can we really vaccinate everyone in a country every six months. Some viruses are impossible to eradicate, covid looks like being the same if it mutates the same rate that flu mutated. No one succeeded in eradicating flu.

It is an impossible situation because we like to think we can control nature but nature is still the boss. viruses and bacteria exist with or without us but as hosts we are home to lots of things. Howard Hughes, once the richest man in the world, drove himself mad in his obsession with germs. I am determined the human race will not have the same fate.

(I did isolate for two weeks immediately before the first lockdown (one days freedom to shop) due to a serious event with Covid and I was on the verge of going to the local hospital when the coughing seemed to stop after about an hour. I had after effects too. I did the same with a second infection a year last November when the British variation came around but a much quicker event and less harmful).

Hi Shay,

Not sure if you realised but I was replying to Matthew and my analogy to drunk drivers was in relation only to the question of weather we should engage in debate or not with people we disagree with. I feel we should and was making this point to say your posts should not be blanked!

You accuse me of microaggression for expressing my opinion once.? 

If you read my comment it actually states two sides of the arguments on lockdown. There are solid facts from many countries to show lockdowns slow the transmission of the virus. That is all I have claimed they achieve. I do not believe in the long term they will halt or lessen the numbers infected, just slow the process to allow research and preparation. As to weather we have used this time wisely that is a completely different question!

On the negative side I believe lockdowns and the media projections of fear cost lives and I think the public should demand more information on this to see all the effects of government actions.

If you feel expressing this is in any way aggressive I do not understand.

I actually agree with you on covid passports and border controls being useless, and feel we must keep schools open and not vaccinate children and yes in the long run we cannot "beat" a virus just slow the speed of spread.

As to how I will celebrate Christmas that's my choice and I am not saying how others should act. We all do our own risk assessments. If I just consider myself I have no fear of contracting covid as I believe for me it should (99% chance) be no worse than Flu. I also think this is the best way to get long term immunity. I do however have to care for my mum who is 98 and very frail - so covid or flu would most likely be fatal to her so that makes me more cautious about about picking up covid or flu or any other virus.

So I am not telling you or anyone how to behave, or what to think, just saying we are all entitled to our view and like you believe this should be based on fact and our personal circumstances.

I have no wish to become involved in a slanging match which I feel the first two paragraphs of your reply are, so if you reply please do so amicably.

I just stumbled on this thread and have read through it and the efficacy of mask waearing.

Several of the comments have been along the lines of masks are useless as a barrier to transmission. However, this is missing an important point. It is only 1 line of defence (A pàrt of the cheese with holes theory). If I were to abandon my mask and stand close to people in an indoor area I would have dramatically increased my chances of picking up my virus. However, if I stay outdoors and keep my distance I have a much lesser chance of contracting the virus. That is obvious isn't it. So whilst mask wearing on its own will not stop transmission a combination of mask, distance, and ventilation will help. You cannot take one part of this equation and say it is ineffective, don't bother. you need lines of defence.

Furthermore, one of the writers in this group challenges people to look at the death statistics to see what the increase is claiming there are no more deaths year on year. This is factually incorrect and there have been plenty of graphs published showing above-average deaths during the first year of the pandemic. 

Finally, I also watched the experiments of indoor mask-wearing where people were asked to cough at varying distances away from a petri dish. The same experiment was done without a mask. I think you can guess the answer, the droplets racing the petri dish was far far less and whilst wearing a mask was not 100% effective it was certainly a positive,

So if you want to do the best you can to avoid this virus, it is common sense, mix less, keep your distance, better to be outdoors, keep indoor rooms well ventilated and wear your mask when in the vicinity of others.

Hello,

Brian -

You may have been replying to Matthew but it was not private? You can make private messages easily enough on this forum.

Likening me to irresponsible 'drunk drivers' is wrong and that is microaggression. I am being responsible in telling you the blunt truth that nothing has worked, we still have the virus and telling other people that it does is wrong. A growing number of people are beginning to see this but they are silent because of the aggrevation they get for putting an entirely rational point of view. See the comment I write to IanB

IanB

You have just repeated that you believe masks are good

Your example of coughing is not relevant. Coughing is not the problem, breathing is. Every time tou breathe you pass out invisible vapour with virus?

Yes it seems intuitive what you say but you have to understand the dynamics. An analogy for you.

If you need to keep flies out of your home you can close all windows and doors, flies can not get in. however, it is a nice day and you want some fresh air, most people here install some kind of fly screen - the pore size of which is less than the size of the fly. Only twice have I seen anyone wearing a virus proof mask, the first was when medical staff could not get them back at the start(!!)

So, you also have to understand that spending an hour in close proximity to someone is not necessary for you to infect someone. With highly infectious viral aerosols any virus that gets out is dangerous. Chief Medical OFficer of the USA was sayiong this week how much more infectious this virus has become.

Ally this to the fact that no one gets an air tight seal and the theory of masks stopping anything except spit and loose skin is never going to stand up in court. In my job if I advocated face coverings (a scarf counts) to prevent people being infected I would have been sacked but people have been so frightened that the politicians have convinced everyone it is working.

These points were made in the text you say you have read but I am happy to have the chance to repeat them. I would also suggest that you look up the size of the virus we are talking about and the pore size of the K95 mask as an example.

You mention increases in deaths, interesting, for which countries and tell me where I can read these things. beware of newspapers because they make big profits out of dramas. The Associated press produced an article that stated in 8 countries there had been no noticeable increase in annual deaths in several countries in Europe and then went on to say that obviously the covid death figures had not worked their way into the system yet and they surely would appear. Covid deaths had "not appeared" in the annual deaths for a country's official figures -the press were only too quick to tell us each day how many people died. if the figures showed 126,000 extra deaths for the UK you can bet the politicians would have told us by now.

I for one was surprised at no increases but it did say there had been slight increases in some others. Differences occur each year and the expectation would be that there would be some. Most of the covid deaths are due to co-morbidity more than one factor causing death. However,  a new virus could produce a shortening of life span and there would be an increase od some sort. The total deaths in a country can vary by ten to twenty percent in any year. Identifying the casuse is not for anyone here because it requires a lot of analysis by scientists. It is worth pointing again out that the UK Govt issued a figure of 88% of deaths were over 70/

Even if you beliieve nothing of what I have written I still have the statement, Covid is still here after two years, even New Zealand has had to change its mind about it. We have not got rid of the virus. What are you going to do next?

My whole point here is that we have wasted two years with all the methods and it did not go away. Wearing masks solves nothing and belief is not the answer.