Scrapping EU laws and the Ex-Pat?> - Page 7

Thanks for your answers and opions . Time to switch off and watch some Billy Connolly and enjoy some fear free laughter . Lighten my heart a bit after a poor days racing results and Aston Villa getting a good hiding .

Thought we might go a bit off topic with the migrant issues...

45,000 in small boats arriving in the UK? Nope! People would be waiting on the beaches for them. When you are getting the so called facts, tell us where you got them? (In fact some people are so worried, they go out every day patrolling the coast to spot potential migrants!)

The Daily Mail has reported the 'secret meeting' and even in their article, eventually, when they have slagged off the non-Conservatives, they talk about the motive behind the meeting - to improve what has turned out to be a bad job. read it for yourself? As Dario points out, throwing laws out of the window without due consideration for the consequences has repercussions and will take years to resolve.

Today I received an, as yet, unverified message saying the May elections in the UK will require a photo ID. No problem, seems sensible, especially as 45,000 new voters just arrived for the occasion? Even though you may not have a driving licence (have you seen the photos?) or a passport, you can even use an Oyster card. Great if you have an Oyster card for the over 60s but a young persons / student Oyster card is not accepted. Someone worked out that the Cons vote is more likely to come from the older generations because a couple of elections ago, one and a quarter million younger people put themselves on the register in an attempt to stop a government taking away their options of working and living in Europe - a benefit most of us have been able to enjoy up to now, even after Brexit. But for how much longer?

Conservative voters should not vote for any other party and do the honourable thing and not vote at all in the the May elections and register your disapproval of the way things are going rather than just saying you don't like them? Apathy is what allows dictators to get into power (today's situation), who will stop that power growing?

Having photo I'd is the best thing ever be it driving licence  or passport  or proof of address/birth certificate  as not all of us drive or have passport  at least we can get some control over  the false votes......as for the channel  crossings we should put the navy into action properly and stop the migration  as they have been through several eu countries  to get England 🇬🇧 this  government  is a waste of space but somebody  voted them in ???

"Get some control over the false votes"? Pray tell, where does this information come from, that SO many "false votes" are cast that photo ID is needed?

I imagine it comes from "My mate Nigel down the pub, who said that ..." or better yet still the wonderful Oracle of "Well everybody knows ...."

Voter ID is not being introduced to restrict this so called plethora of "false votes" of which there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever and in stating this I quote the Electoral Commission UK who declare that :

The UK has low levels of proven electoral fraud. There remains no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud in 2021.

(Source: 2021 Electoral Fraud Data) 

In fact in 2019 at the General Election, out of the millions of votes cast, there were 164 proven attempted fraudulent votes. Hardly a lot of "False Votes" is it? (source: 2019 Electoral Fraud Data)

Britain has existed for a great many decades without needing Voter ID, and indeed the extremely low number of fraudulent votes and assertion by the Electoral Commission that there are low levels of electoral fraud would seem to indicate that there is more at play than "false votes" in introducing the legislation necessary (at large cost no doubt) to make Voter ID obligatory.

As Shay points out, what of the legal, registered or able to register voters who are unable to access "approved" Voter ID?  they are effectively disenfranchised, but then this government has demonstrated time and again that it has little time for democracy.

Conservatives are getting desperate.  They know that come next election they'll be out on their ear, so they are doing all they can to retain what power they can.  Aided and abetted by those spreading untruths about "the false votes"

As for the Channel crossing, you can't use the Navy.  It is NOT illegal to seek asylum, and there is no law that says they must seek asylum in the first country they come to.  The "must stop in first port of safe haven" is a complete myth, mangled and misunderstood from the agreement under Dublin III that allowed UK to return Migrants / Asylum Seekers to "Last port of safe haven"

I think this discussion has run its course. Interesting though it was. As  it went from the Tory Government getting rid of UK Laws.

To Spain bashing, and the wonders of returning to England. Then it veered even more off course with people been accused of being unpatriotic for pointing out the sleaze of the current Tory Party. Finally we ended up with immigration and the miniscule amount of desperate people risking life and limb to get to England. Where they know they can get work. Shit work, underpaid work, illegal work. But they are virtually guaranteed to get work. Due to the massive labour shortage in the UK. 

That is if they escape from the clutches of the Braverman Gang. If they are unlucky enough to be caught. They are locked away to rot, with no right to study or work. With the very slim chance to get a Willie Wonka Golden ticket to that well known immigrant paradise called Rwanda.

Germany needs over 400,000 new workers coming in every year to continue its economic growth. And a lot of immigrants are heading that way. 

The UK has a shortfall of 330,00 workers needed to keep its economy just at a normal level. 

The 45,000 that are coming in by boat, is just a drop in the ocean. (Pardon the pun) Stories abound of able bodied Albanians just getting locked up or sent home when they could be sent out to work in legal jobs and start paying Tax. For Gods sake, put them into the British Army for 5yrs. As the shortage there at the moment is a security risk. Braverman could easily setup a Visa Office in France and sort out the workers needed, and family reunion members.

Which would leave precious little left for the boat smugglers.

2022 statistics: Less than 0.1% of the 4,500 people who have illegally come to the country in boats in the first quarter of the year have been removed on the basis that their asylum claim was inadmissible. 

That shows in the case of 4.5 people out of 4500, it was found their asylum claim was inadmissible. 

So they qualify for a Willie Wonka Golden Ticket on the Rwanda Express. A 737 has around 174 seats. And its hired ready to go. If Braverman wants to fill it she will need to wait 38.6 months (at 4.5 people every month). 3yrs 6.6 months and that 737 has been hired and waiting on the runway. At $9,675.13 per hour. (Do the Math)

More sensible and smarter people than me have suggested that this is an idiotic, wasteful and illegal plan. A total waste of UK Tax Payers money and should be booted into the dustbin with the rest of Tory duds. Far better to spend the UK Tax payers money on a Migration Centre in France or Albania. And let the able bodied workers come to the UK in a more fruitful way. Let them work and pay Tax. 

We are all more or less immigrants. Whether we call ourselves expats and live in Spain. Or call ourselves descendant's of that other famous immigrant, William of Orange. Who came across the channel by boat, illegally, and landed at Brixham with a large group of immigrant friends and removed the rightful English King James II. The tiny amount of immigrants crossing the channel have no such ambitions.

Braverman has the means to stop the smugglers, and its clearly not treating the immigrants like criminals, or hiring at vast expense Jets, to send a tiny amount people to a country that has its own problems.

45,756 according to published uk government figures an increase of 17,000 on the 28,526 who arrived in 2021 . Figures released by government on New Year’s Day . Sorry NOPE 

Devo, the remark was 45,000 in small boats - note the small boats and where the comma lies?

Thanks to Dario for his Knowledgeable response on this and

Thanks to SonderB for some well turned out numbers too

"2022 statistics: Less than 0.1% of the 4,500 people who have illegally come to the country in boats in the first quarter of the year have been removed on the basis that their asylum claim was inadmissible."

I agree the original premise of this post has probably run its course for now. It was in response to an enquiry about residency in Spain on this forum (now that Brexit has passed) and I didn't reply to it because I think the UK ex-pats are going to find life even harder after December this year and I didn't want to be negative about the enquiry at the time.

My opinion would be do it now and take a chance that you have already established a right to be in Spain or wait and see what else this government can do to make peoples lives more difficult before you decide?

On a personal note I have had some minor hiccups in getting my state pension and the S1 reciprocal health agreement. In both cases I have had to contact the authorities in the UK and in both cases they have not only responded but done so at speed and apologised. In my chatty way I asked various questions about the way things are done and got some interesting replies about my need to get things done asap and I got responses within a couple of days, not the usual weeks. It certainly didn't change my mind over the opinion I expressed above and before, that I still see a downward progression until someone of any party puts the brakes on and realises that the UK has punched above its weight for a long time and removing us from Europe has made it harder to have influence in a wider world.  The  sad part is that ex-Pats are the vulnerable party and many here with little resource to do anything about it?

Sorry Shay 123, ( comma)  . The figure of 45,756 is incorrect then and should only be 4,575     -6 . That is the government figure and as reported in most papers and tv news Chanel’s . The bulk of the crossings at the moment coming from Albania which is not classed as an unsafe country .

Thanks for the adjustment in numbers! Perhaps your anger got the better of your comma sense? :) not that I am a stickler for punctuation, I abuse it enough myself :)

There is no point in getting upset about migration, it has happened since, forever and EVERY government since has said yes it will control it and then finds it needs cheap labour and imports it.

The consequence of this is frustration that there are a lot of 'foreigners' in the UK but if you look at the historic migrations into the UK, hundreds of thousands have come over the last couple of hundred years and are now integrated and think of themselves as British. This is borne out by black conservative MPs, The average DNA content of the UK is only 36% 'British' according to the latest studies and a personal survey I did when I was working in science in very English Oxford. 78% of the scientists had moved from north of the Mersey / Humber divide or abroad, including myself. We all moved for job opportunities?

Until we deal with war and poverty abroad (and stop having to rescue people who worked for western military and economic aims) and stop using cheap migrant labour to fuel greedy, excessive capitalism the migrant problem will not go away?

Furthermore, it then fuels irrational scrapping of 'foreign' laws like improved road safety standards and financial regulation to protect our savings and clean beaches and ...and ... - that prompted this theme.

Nothing is  perfect but the EU is seen as a model to work towards by other nations collaborating together, particularly in Asia, where ten nations of wildly contrasting faiths and culture are working together economically. As they will discover, putting faith and culture to one side, to collaborate and build will allow even greater growth, stability and population movement. And where is the economic power of Britain compared with SE Asia, the former sinking, having as SonderB said, sold its manufacturing base and the latter getting stronger?

Am I knocking the UK? No. There are good people there but ask anyone outside the UK and they shake their heads in disbelief. I am knocking the people who can only think negatively and they are thinking only of themselves and their financial backers. The road crash that was Brexit will be made worse if the laws are scrapped. It would be much easier and more plausible if Smug-Rees and the ERM picked out some specific laws for scrapping, like metrication and then we would think it was progressive, rather than through their hatred?

Not sorry , I was being sarcastic. The figures for the year are 45,000 plus . And you’re right I’m angry .