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Spanish Tax Angst

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 2:55pm
17 replies5 members subscribed
MojCath

Posts: 9

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 12 Jan 2023

Hi, I wonder if ayone has had the experience with the Spanish tax authorities that my husband and I have endured?  I'm going to try and keep this post short, though not sweet.

We lived in Spain from 200 tp 2010, bought a house in 2001 and received residencias.  We lived on my husband's work pension and paid tax on this in the UK.

In November 2021, we got an anxious 'phone call from my neighbour saying there was a man from the tax office and should she sign for it?  We said "yes".  We did not want to cause her any more stress.  The letter was forwarded to us via her boyfriend in the UK and we received it 2 weeks later.

We could not understand what the document referred to, so we presented it to our abogado when we returned to Spain a week or so later.  He said it was for income taxed owed for 2016/17 and we should present any evidence we had that we paid tax in the UK during 2016/17, which we duly did.  This included statements from HMRC and Land Registry, along with Spainish bank statements (which showed utility payments- and the fact that we were not using water, etc.) and documents showing that we had become non-resident long before 2016.  However, for the UK information, we had to return to the UK and I immediately sent it to our abogado by registered post.  I traced the packet and ran off a receipt from the Correos.  2 months later, we were told that our abogado had not received them, so his office copied them and passed them on to the Spanish tax office.  Our abogado then said we needed a "Letter of Confirmation of Residence" from HMRC, which I managed to acquire after 3 months.  At last, I thought, after I'd scanned the Letter, which covered my husband from 2010, to our abogado, it's all over!  Only to receive an email from his office, telling me it was too late(?!)  Surely, we said, on our next visit, no-one can be expected to pay income tax in 2 countries?  This received a shrug, even when I asked him to pass the Letter on regardless.

He then said we now need a Certificate of Residence from HMRC.  But, I said, that only applies to businesses or income earners abroad, which neither of us was.

Has this happened to anyone out there?  Did you resolve it?  If so, would you please tell me how?

Thank you.

Alicia 11

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:21pm

Alicia 11

Super helpful member

Posts: 2113

1784 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 30 Sep 2019

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:21pm

my understanding is that if you were resident here in Spain at the beginning that is when you should of paid the taxes here and not in the UK and then when you became non resident you would have gone back onto the UK tax system and that would have been it.  You owe the tax here even if you paid it in the UK and would need to claim it back from HMRC for that period. Unfortunately the Spanish taxman always wants their money and will fine if not paid on time.  You need someone here who is knowledgeable in the ways of the taxes.  Try Groupo Salvador in Mojacar.  

keith2412

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:37pm

keith2412

Helpful member

Posts: 143

98 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 6 Feb 2018

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:37pm

Following from Alicia who is absolutely right. I had a big problem with the tax dept here. 1 day when I checked my bank account the tax dept had put an embargo on my account and took nearly 1000 euros. No notice was given and when investigated they stated they had not taken enough tax!! 2 years previously. So my advice is either make sure your abogado sorts it or get another representative here who knows the tax system. They have the power to embargo your account. Best wishes 

MojCath

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:48pm

MojCath

Original Poster

Posts: 9

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 12 Jan 2023

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:48pm

Alicia 11 wrote on Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:21pm:

my understanding is that if you were resident here in Spain at the beginning that is when you should of paid the taxes here and not in the UK and then when you became non resident you would have gone back onto the UK tax system and that would have been it.  You owe the tax here even if you p...

...aid it in the UK and would need to claim it back from HMRC for that period. Unfortunately the Spanish taxman always wants their money and will fine if not paid on time.  You need someone here who is knowledgeable in the ways of the taxes.  Try Groupo Salvador in Mojacar.  

Thank you very much for replying so promptly.  Just to say, though, HMRC were aware that we lived in Spain and sent correspondence to our Spanish address.

Again, many thanks and I will certainly be contacting Groupo Salvador.

MojCath

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:56pm

MojCath

Original Poster

Posts: 9

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 12 Jan 2023

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:56pm

keith2412 wrote on Tue Feb 6, 2024 3:37pm:

Following from Alicia who is absolutely right. I had a big problem with the tax dept here. 1 day when I checked my bank account the tax dept had put an embargo on my account and took nearly 1000 euros. No notice was given and when investigated they stated they had not taken enough tax!! 2 years p...

...reviously. So my advice is either make sure your abogado sorts it or get another representative here who knows the tax system. They have the power to embargo your account. Best wishes 

Thank you, Keith.  Having money taken from your account like that must have been a shock, especially then being told it wasn't enough! I'm taking Alicia's advice and am just about to contact Groupo Salvador.

As I said to Alicia, we actually received correspondence from HMRC whilst we were in Spain and at no point did anybody tell us that we were supposed to pay tax in two countries.

Did you resolve the problem?

Thanks again.

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keith2412

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 4:06pm

keith2412

Helpful member

Posts: 143

98 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 6 Feb 2018

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 4:06pm

Yes thanks I arranged a plan with them through a assesoria in Vera. If you don't get any joy let me know and I will give you his contact details. I have never owed anything to anyone all my life so as you said it was a hell of a shock

 Good luck and I hope you're successful.

MojCath

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 4:30pm

MojCath

Original Poster

Posts: 9

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 12 Jan 2023

Posted: Tue Feb 6, 2024 4:30pm

keith2412 wrote on Tue Feb 6, 2024 4:06pm:

Yes thanks I arranged a plan with them through a assesoria in Vera. If you don't get any joy let me know and I will give you his contact details. I have never owed anything to anyone all my life so as you said it was a hell of a shock

 Good luck and I hope you're successful.

Thank you very, very much, Keith, I may well take you up on that.

jch

Posted: Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:41pm

jch

Posts: 28

24 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 7 Dec 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:41pm

the Certificate of Residence is not exclusively for business or earners abroad. I have recently had to obtain this same Certificate.  The online form 'appears' to be for business/earners abroad, but if you carry on filling it out, there is ample opportunity to explain what you need, your circumstances, etc., and lo and behold, you get a certficate.  Just fill in the blanks that apply to you and ignore anything that asks for business details and the like.  It's just that the HMRC site is not very clear that the procedure applies as well to 'ordinary' people who just need to prove their residence in the UK.

Alicia 11

Posted: Wed Feb 7, 2024 3:53pm

Alicia 11

Super helpful member

Posts: 2113

1784 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 30 Sep 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 7, 2024 3:53pm

As usual it is always down to the ordinary guy to do the leg work HMRC and the Spanish tax offices do not work together and it is the person who is taxed who is supposed to know what to do.  The only income aloud in Spain and taxed in the UK is the payment of Civil servants pensions, Having said that if, like my husband your pension is not at tax levels of the UK it will be taxed in Spain under the world wide income rules. 

MojCath

Posted: Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:24pm

MojCath

Original Poster

Posts: 9

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 12 Jan 2023

Posted: Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:24pm

jch wrote on Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:41pm:

the Certificate of Residence is not exclusively for business or earners abroad. I have recently had to obtain this same Certificate.  The online form 'appears' to be for business/earners abroad, but if you carry on filling it out, there is ample opportunity to explain what you need, your cir...

...cumstances, etc., and lo and behold, you get a certficate.  Just fill in the blanks that apply to you and ignore anything that asks for business details and the like.  It's just that the HMRC site is not very clear that the procedure applies as well to 'ordinary' people who just need to prove their residence in the UK.

Thanks for this.  I'm assuming you mean the "Gateway" that is HMRC's website for this.  I found that, at the point where they are "going to ask 3 questions" and you have to provide information, they always wanted my husband's driving license and I could go no further.  My husband is registered partially sighted, so does not have one, so I went the "email" route on the website and got a Letter of confirmation of residence, dated from 2010.  So, while I'm grateful for your reply and I will try this method again, I don't hold out much hope.  Also, personally, I cannot understand why the Letter seems to be of no consequence.

Thanks again.

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