latest on the crazy driving licence situation - Page 2

Latest update from HMA Madrid

https://www.facebook.com/100064516637663/posts/pfbid0B2kHDYKbKyP6BUyXkET5tnbbSEid43PA3emHWKUDXD3fKhrRhVsMGXLdaZLnEjxzl/?d=n

Many thanks David62 - I have copied and pasted the text here for those that are not Facebookists or don't want to get lost in the inevitable anti-Spain comments in the comments section:

**UPDATE ON DRIVING LICENCE NEGOTIATIONS**

We know there are lots of questions and concerns about the ongoing negotiations on driving licence exchange. We’ve rounded up the most common questions you’re sending in to provide you with more information, as well as an update on what’s happened this week.

We also know that all you want is to be back on the roads - and we want this too. We hope the below is helpful in providing transparency and understanding around the process.

**********************************

When are we going to be able to drive again?

We don’t know for sure because it is a live negotiation, but the UK’s ambition is to reach a deal as soon as possible. We genuinely are making progress each week. For example, this week we have agreed the main text, which means there are only the annexes outstanding. We recognise it has been frustratingly slow though.

Will it be before the end of July? Will talks be paused over August?

It remains our aspiration to agree the remaining parts as soon as possible. The important paperwork from Spain, which the Ambassador mentioned as outstanding last Friday, arrived this morning (22/07) and the UK team is now reviewing it as quickly as they can. Once everything is finalised, the agreement will then need legal and political approvals. We are committed to get this through the UK and Spanish systems quickly, however, as we’ve said before, we cannot make any guarantees.

We have sought assurances from the Spanish Government that we can continue negotiating in August if needs be. On the UK side, we have a full team available to cover this negotiation over the summer because it is a top priority for us.

At what point in the process are you?

This week we have agreed the main text – which is positive news. We now need to agree the annexes before the whole package can go forward for final legal and political approvals.Why has it taken so long?Creating an international treaty is always complex. In this instance, the Spanish Government also asked for data provision to form part of the driving licence exchange process, something which no other EU Member State asked for, and which requires careful legal and operational considerations. We have been required to seek additional legal advice from data experts and establish additional annexes to the main agreement. All of this has taken a lot of back and forth and therefore, a lot of time.

Can you tell us what you discuss in each meeting?

We want to be open and transparent about the negotiations, but we can’t give a running commentary on every meeting. This would be counterproductive to what we’re trying to achieve, which is to get you back on the roads as soon as possible.

Why can’t the temporary measures be reinstated now?

We have asked for this but Spain have not agreed to the request.

Who are the key players in negotiations?

The negotiations are being led by the Department of Transport (DfT) on the UK side and the Interior Ministry’s DVLA equivalent agency, Dirección General de Tráfico (DGT), on the Spanish side, in collaboration with The British Embassy in Spain and the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

MY OPINION ON THE ABOVE (Stop reading here if you don't care about my opinion):

OK, you're still reading, so you obviously want to see what I think.  The first point I'll raise is the little line about temporary measures being reinstated, and Spain not agreeing to that. One could be forgiven for thinking that cessation of temporary measures is all that has brought UK to negotiating in anything like good faith.  Perhaps Spain fears that a re-introduction of temporary measures now would see a sudden slackening in the pace of negotiations and perhaps the reversal of items that perhaps Britain has only reluctantly agreed to - like DVLA access.

The other thing is the quite vague and ambiguous statement about negotiating through August.  I refer to the "We have sought assurances from the Spanish Government that we can continue negotiating in August if needs be"  line from HMA.  Notice he doesn't say anything about the legal or political approval neccessary to ratify this treaty other than their commitment to get it through the UK and Spanish political systems as quickly as possible .... I stand by what I said originally after now seeing this update - it will now be September at the very earliest before UK licences are once again given limited validity for British residents of Spain.  I say limited because it most certainly won't be open ended.  There will be a period of time allowed for British residents of Spain who still hold a UK licence to exchange for a Spanish Carnet de Conducir.  This is quite apart from the fact you cannot register a NON-UK address on your UK licence, and having the wrong address on your UK licence CAN leave you open to prosecution by UK authorities and a subsequent fine 

Thanks once again Dario, brilliant work mate many thanks, inspires a little more confidence

in this issue ,as stated before i have only been resident for almost 6 months and these matters are new to me so thanks for your help and guidance thus far

an additional point if i can  please.......the  uk licence has to have a uk address on it correct?

how long must we have left on our licences to be able to exchange when that becomes possible

as mine is ready for renewal in the uk very soon??

great work and very much appreciated Dario 

regards dave 65

YES - a UK licence *MUST* have a UK address.  You are not permitted to hold a UK licence if you are not resident in the UK for at least 183 days a year (for anyone who doesn't believe me, take a look at a DVLA licence renewal application - you have to sign as declaring you are resident in England for at least 183 days a year, and threatens fines for deliberate misinformation)

As to validity, as I understand it, as long as the licence is still valid at time of swap, that's fine.  It's not like the passport which must have 3 months left on it at time of exit from EU (for tourists - that stipulation does not apply to residents)

When does you licence expire?

Welcome to spain.good luck and enjoy your new life .

You are correct! But it would be helpful for all the UK immigrants to Spain if something could be sorted.

Hi Dave65. Forgive me if I have misunderstood of misread your post but, are you aware that now you have been here for six months you must now stop driving on your UK license. In addition about 3 or 4 weeks ago Hugh Elliot said ‘Spain has agreed to reinstate UK licenses for a six month period but, there is a clause.’ I honest believe that it is possible that those here under the Withdrawal Agreement MAY be able to exchange their license but, those here on a Visa will be no different than those from Canada, the US or any other 3rd Nation country and will need to take a Spanish driving test. Imagine the uproar from other 3rd Nation countries if the UK are allowed to exchange and they weren’t! Having taken a test, I was badly let down by my legal representative, not that I couldn’t be bothered to exchange, I can say if you study hard the test is ok. After 7 weeks living in a rural location and walking in the heat it was a no brainer. I do hope I’m wrong but, look at it logically 🤔

Good morning lady V. 

thanks for you reply, I have been here 6months this week and have therefore stopped 

driving my Spanish car here, there are alternatives I am using ,local bus comes to my village once day ,and neighbours are very supportive 

I hope as i understand this issue will be sorted soon and an exchange will be granted 

If not ,off to the local driving school I will go and take the appropriate lessons and test to obtain a spanish licence

many thanks Lady V for your email on this matter 

regards  Dave65

De nada  Dave. Hope you enjoy your wonderful new life in Spain

Here follows latest update.  As expected, negotiations drag on into August, HMA warns people not to expect things to happen quickly:  A few questions that have been raised on this thread are addressed in this update.

**UPDATE ON DRIVING LICENCE NEGOTIATIONS** 

In response to positive feedback on the format of last week’s post, we have prepared another Q&A to provide an update on negotiations and round up some of your frequently asked questions.  

As we have said before, there are some details we cannot go into, as that could run the risk of derailing the negotiations – which is the last thing that any of us want. However, we are being as transparent as we possibly can and we hope this post is helpful.

**

What has happened this week? 

Intensive talks have continued this week, concluding in a productive meeting between UK and Spanish officials today. However, there remains some outstanding work to be done to agree the annexes. Also this week, the Ambassador met with citizens’ rights groups representing UK Nationals from across Spain to hear their perspectives on local issues and answer questions from their members. 

Will negotiations go on into August?

Yes. Last week we said that we’d sought assurances on this and that, on the UK side, we had a full negotiating team available. Spain have now confirmed that they can continue negotiations with us over August, which we’re very grateful for.

We recognise that many people are considering their whereabouts over August and so would like to know more about the negotiation timeline. Although, as we’ve said before, it’s impossible to give an exact date on when they will conclude, we want to be open about the fact things may take longer than we’d like during August.

What happens once the agreement is final? 

Once the negotiation teams have agreed the text, it will then go forward for final legal and political approvals. On the Spanish side, this means going through the ‘Consejo de Ministros’ (Spanish Cabinet). On the UK side, it will be approved by relevant Ministers.

Then it will be published in the BOE (state bulletin) and should come into force the same day. You will then have six months to exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one (without having to take a test) and during that time you will be able to drive using your UK licence.  

Will there be enough exchange appointments? 

It will be for the Spanish Government to administer the process and ensure the provision of appointments. This is something we have raised throughout negotiations and Spain is conscious of the possible number of UK nationals who may need to exchange during the six-month window. 

We would encourage you to get an appointment as soon as you can and not leave it until the last minute, remembering that you do not have to exchange where you are resident if there is greater availability elsewhere.   

My UK licence has expired. Will I still be able to get a Spanish licence? 

The fact that some people’s licences have expired, or are about to, has been taken into account by the negotiating team. Expired licences shall be accepted provided that they were valid at the time that the licence holder entered Spain.

Will the agreement only apply to those who were here before the end of 2020 and registered their intent to exchange? 

No. The agreement will apply to anyone holding a UK licence, whether they were here before the end of 2020 or whether they move here in the future.