After Brexit and the transition period has ended - Page 2

Dario said - “Given Mr Johnson is unwilling to extend the transition period, I fail to see how Spain is going to be able in 11 months to convert Residencia to TIE for some 350.000+ expats, as well as processing new arrivals.”

As far as I’m aware we won’t need to start to replace our green residencia cards until Jan 2021, or after the Transition period ends. But you make a good point - it would be administratively sensible to just exchange our residencia cards for a TIE - with no charge and no additional paperwork to be submitted.

Chris

I didn't realise that there was a blanket conversion of South American migrants in Spain a few years ago. I reckon this is the most sensible way to go for the Brits in Spain. It makes sense.

Brits currently make up the third largest migrant category from a single country / point of origin to Spain, with I think Moroccans taking the top spot, Romanians second, then U.K. expats - (although combined migration from all Latin American countries would bump us to fourth spot)

Migrants from all over the world make up fully 12% of Spain’s total population.  Whilst the Spanish government is ... unlikely ... to make any blanket concessions for us, mores the pity, they also would rather not see the income of U.K. Expats disappear .... well .... a SENSIBLE government wouldn’t.  Would be wise to hope that Vox doesn’t gain power .... 

Chrisso - I found this on the Spanish Goverment Website - La Moncloa.  My reading of this is that as we are leaving with a withdrawal agreement, those of us with the Green Residencia certificates will not necessarily HAVE to change them, but may choose to do so :

“The Withdrawal Agreement provides for a transition period to be established lasting from the withdrawal date to 31 December 2020. This period may be extended.

During this transition period UK nationals and their family members resident in Spain who are nationals of non-EU countries will maintain their rights derived from the application of EU law (except for the right to vote and stand in elections to the European Parliament and the right to use the EU Citizens Initiative).

Once the transition period ends, the Withdrawal Agreement stipulates that your rights of residence, work, study and social security will be maintained.

You have to bear in mind that the registration certificates (the green certificate) and ID cards of family members of the EU citizen obtained before the end of the transition period will subsequently serve to accredit their legal residence in Spain and benefit from the provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement. However, during the transition period you may request the issue of a Foreigner Identity Card that explicitly mentions your condition as beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement.

Having a registration certificate in force is a guarantee of your rights as resident in Spain.”

What are your thoughts Chris? Matthew? Or indeed anyone following this thread - would love someone else’s view of this.

Dario, I will have a look at this, it’s news to me. British in Europe and Brexpats in Spain say that we will have to obtain a TIE (foreigner ID card) once we leave. There has been no suggestion that this is optional. I’m wondering if this may be an old paper? 

Chris

Possibly - it was published after the law regarding what would happen with us was bought into effect by Pedro Sánchez, but sets out what happens in cases of both Withdrawal agreement and no withdrawal agreement.  Mandatory TIE was only in the event if NO withdrawal agreement - here’s the link :

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/howtoprepare/Paginas/190108residence.aspx

Go down to the section where it talks about YK nationals in Spain.  The above is at section 1.1 I think - entitled “During the transition period”

Dario - I have just had a reply: “Simple answer - we are awaiting confirmation from Spain.”

I shall post the reply here as soon as I get it!

Chris

Thanks Chris - I do hope the above is what happens

This is the latest I know, as of 20.12.19

Living in the EU - prepare for Brexit

Residency documents and status.

You and your family may need to apply for a residence status to confirm that you were already resident in the EU country you live in before 31 December 2020. You will have until at least 30 June 2021 to do this.

The EU country where you live will set up a system for applying for a residence status. The application will be short, simple and either free of charge, or cost no more than applying for a similar document, for example a national identity card or passport.

You will have until at least 30 June 2021 to submit your application. We will share information on how to apply in our Living in guideswhen it is available.

Permanent residency documents

You will be able to exchange valid permanent residence documents for a new residence document free of charge before the implementation period ends. This also applies to valid domestic immigration documents that confirm your permanent right to live in a country. You may need to provide proof of identity and undergo criminality and security checks.

~

A summary - inc much handy info from Debbie at Brexpats!

Bilbao police station is claiming (Dec 2019) that although the Withdrawal agreement lasts till end of 2020 residence cards being issued now will need to be changed in Feb 2020! This is wrong. Residence cards may well have to be changed but we don't know yet and are awaiting confirmation of WA implementation procedures from Spain. We have until June 2021 to obtain the TIE but first we need confirmation from Spain that is what they want us to do. The procedures for a deal are not yet cast in stone!

We are waiting for the national govt (Spain) to tell us what to do and we should not listen to local officials. By all means keep any appt that you are given but hopefully we should know by February what the procedures are to be for us as legal residents in Spain 

Remember, we will need to be given a document that confirms we are recipients of the WA rights. If we are just issued the same TIE as any other 3rd country national, it will not state this! So until we have confirmation from Spain that a new TIE annotating our rights is available, we do nothing.

So yes, it seems likely that we will have to exchange our green residencia cards for a TIE. But we don’t HAVE to do it in February.  We HAVE to do it prior to June 2021, and CAN do it from February 2020.

I don’t want to confuse people even further but it is not entirely clear yet which process Spain is adopting which is why we must wait...

The Withdrawal agreement allows each EU27 state to choose between 2 methods of certifying our residency in accordance with the WA. 

EITHER: the country can adopt what’s called a declaratory system, which mirrors what happens now and simply certifies the rights that we already hold, whether as permanent residents (5 years or more) or temporary residents (less than 5 years). If Spain adopts this system, it can choose whether or not we need to hold a new card. 

OR: they can adopt a constitutive system. Under this, we would have to APPLY for our rights; the application process would include checks on whether people had been exercising treaty rights, as well as criminality checks. This is the equivalent of the ‘settled status’ that the UK has implemented for any EU citizens in the UK, and the concept of reciprocity has led to this being an option for each EU27 country if they wish to adopt it. As yet we have no idea whether Spain would choose to adopt this system. 

Given Spain has the single largest body of British expats, I would hope - and imagine - that a declaratory system would be much easier to implement and manage.  Here’s hoping