Post Brexit event that some proclaimed impossible? - Page 2

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A few facts for the democracy deniers:

The UK has been the only major European country not to undergo a recession since Feb 2020 or, indeed, June 2016. 

In fact, the last recession in the UK occurred in 2008

Furthermore, as France enters its second recession since 2016 along with Germany and the host of basket cases Brussels has picked up over the years to make up the Eurozone as a whole, it really defies even the most perverse form of contorted logic what benefits being a member of such an increasingly malfunctioning organisation are.

It's quite apparent that the Brexit naysayers on here tend to be those who've moved to Spain to take a short cut to a life in the sun but with the need to still generate an income to exist.

Those, however, who've put the hard years in by toiling through the long working hours and miserable weather of Northern Europe to obtain a decent pension, are largely unaffected by the EU's petty attempts to stymie UK expats in the Mediterranean sun.

Y'all have a Merry Christmas now, ya hear?

Love Europe, hate the EU.

Bwaaaaaaaahhh hahaha there’s so much utter bullsh*t there I can’t even be bothered to unpack it.  A great deal of delusion, denial and sheer invention.

A Merry Yule to you all, may your festive season be bright, peaceful and joyous.

I agree with you 100 per cent Dario

The problem with whataboutery (‘which countries have had recessions’, when the issue was second home owners in France) is that the stirrers assert ‘facts’ that are false.

Many European markets have suffered recession at various times but withstood economic malaise thanks to the ECB’s unprecedented monetary stimulus of the Eurozone. Eurozone GDP shrank 0.1% in Q3 of 2023 pointing to a shallow recession, if a weak fourth quarter follows.

France has actually avoided a 2023 recession, primarily due to the services industry. (Bloomberg, Dec 2023). It - like many European countries - was briefly in recession during the pandemic.

There have been seven official German recessions since national reunification at the end of 1990. Germany was in mild recession in 2012-13 (Q4 & Q1 of 2013). Like other countries it was in recession during the 2020 pandemic and was again in recession 2022-23 (Q4 & Q1of 2023).

The UK has also (thus far) avoided a recent recession, but the 2023 ONS figures for Q3 were 0.1% negative and if replicated for Q4 currently place it in a shallow recession. Like other countries it was in recession during the pandemic 2020 Q1&2.

So - ‘Democracy deniers’? Who is denying anything? You won your referendum by a slim majority (52/48) and can claim your benefits. If you are a second home owner in the EU that was actually a loss: because Britain (a key drafter of the rules) agreed that 2HOs from third countries should not have the same rights as those from EU countries. You knew this in 2016 so it’s a stretch of your imagination to think it’s an “EU petty attempt to stymie UK expats in the Mediterranean sun”. The EU is not doing anything. It was you that left.

By the way, having a second home in the EU does not make you an ‘expat’. You remain a UK resident and a visitor within Europe.

Chris

Really??? 

Unfortunately too many of the people who voted for Brexit hated foreigners per se. They didn't and still don't understand the EU.   As George Orwell once said, the English tend to pay a heavy price for their insularity.

Probably the-nearest-to-the-truth post written on this thread. 

I thought it would be fun to drop a stone in the pond and see the ripples!  I absolutely don't 'hate foreigners'  I speak French , German,  now Spanish, a bit of Italian...  Parts of my life I have lived in what are now EU countries and have many enduring friendships among a variety of people. 

I just like us, as a country , to be masters of our own fate for good or ill, while always willing to help other less fortunate counties that have different needs and less stable forms of government. 

After seeing many of these posts causing disruption and disagreements amongst the good people on here, I would like to put forward an alternative view.

We can look at this issue from a slightly different viewpoint that could possibly give a more acceptable perspective. These are ideas that have been suggested by much more intelligent and eloquent people that myself but I will try to summarise as best as I can.

The world economies have and always been run by the wealthy for the wealthy. These people need to control the narrative which means control of the media. As there is only a very small percentage of the very wealthy, to maintain their position at the top of the pile they need to control the majority or the herd, which is us folk. That control is maintained by the servants of the wealthy, yes you guessed it, the Government.

Now if you think of the herd as like a 3-year-old toddler, which, let’s be honest, is usually only seconds from serious injury, so needs to be monitored or distracted at all times i.e. given toys, TV, Tablet (the electronic type) and/or put in a playpen, to allow the parent the freedom to get on with day-to-day existence. Then we, as the herd, also need to be distracted from the realisation that the few are controlling things for the benefit of themselves to the detriment of the majority.

Now back the point, If, as an example we consider the Brexit vote. Which has turned out to be a considerably effective distraction of the herd from the real facts of why the populace seems to be in constant turmoil. After all a 52%/48% split in the unity of the herd with the mainstream media constantly stoking the fires of division, winner winner chicken dinner for those at the top.

Now apply that logic to anything (wars, strikes, immigration, climate change, energy prices, etc.) that appears to undermine our confidence in society or life in general and you should find we are being well distracted from the root cause of the world’s problems.

This appears to have been the situation since we formed our first tribe as a species and I don’t see it changing any time soon.  So, in my humble opinion, if we look at all the things that we suspect are manipulation of the herd are just that, manipulation, accept it for what it is, flip the finger to these privileged few and have a beer with your neighbour, with no mind of race, sex or colour, celebrate the here and now as one, that will really piss them off, because that is the last thing that they want.

Well, that’s me done, apart from wishing all the very best to you and yours.

“I just like us, as a country , to be masters of our own fate for good or ill”

This, right here, is the substance of the grand illusion.  The mistaken belief that to be sovereign, to be “masters of our own fate”, UK had to separate from the EU.

It is, of course a nonsense.  UK always had control of its borders, autonomy, sovereignty.  The so-called “loss” of these things was the greatest lie sold by vote leave - and far far too many lapped it up without checking.

To date, there has been not one logical or coherent explanation of exactly what was lost, or indeed what “regaining our sovereignty” actually means