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John99andrew wrote on Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:32pm:
Some people will never admit it was a mistake I would not wast my time with these people, head in the sand.
Typical Champaign socialist Remainer comment.
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:49pm
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:02pm
Helpful member
Austtrev wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:23pm:
Hi Matthew,
Very good reply by yourself!
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Keir Starmer will not get a better deal from the EU, they have moved on. A lot of people voted for Brexit, they wanted to be free of EU laws and regulations and wanted freedom of movement!
As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for!
Before moving to Spain we ran a pub, we had a number of customers who wanted Brexit and indeed advocated dropping a bomb on Brussels on multiple occasions, but to be fair, they advocated this for any country they didn’t agree with.After much loud debate and bar banging they got what they voted for, Brexit, cheers all round , UNTIL, it dawned on them that due to the 90 day rule they wouldn’t be able to stay in Spain as long as they wanted, CUE, They can’t tell me when I can go to my home, I own it, they can’t stop me staying as long as I want, how can they stop me?
Now, it should be borne in mind that they never stopped anywhere near 90 days anyway but I should be able to if I want !
These are people who live in a largely ex- pat area and when the son was extolling the areas virtues, mainly British, we asked if they ever got into the car and drove up into the hills, his reply, hand on heart was, No, it’s full of Spanish! Nuff said really.
But according to his father , “ I didn’t vote for this, I voted for Brexit”.
People need to move on , Brexit is what it is.
And yes, we are lucky that we were able to obtain an Irish passport, so are fake “Paddys “ and were able to get Residencia & a Driving Licence, BUT we did vote for Brexit! BUT we did our research beforehand.
We do worry about the way things are heading back home, it’s becoming a much more divided society and that’s down to ALL the parties.
The reason why people in the UK are unhappy with Brexit is that, even though they won the vote to leave the EU, they have never been given the Brexit they voted for by the quisling politicians in Westminster and of course the quisling Civil Service hampering not just Brexit but just about everything else this government tries to do.
All we have been given is Brexit in name only (BRINO).
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:51pm
Helpful member
Stuart47 wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:02pm:
The reason why people in the UK are unhappy with Brexit is that, even though they won the vote to leave the EU, they have never been given the Brexit they voted for by the quisling politicians in Westminster and of course the quisling Civil Service hampering not just Brexit but just about everyth...
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...ing else this government tries to do.
All we have been given is Brexit in name only (BRINO).
Try telling that to the folk who pland to retire in Spain and are now finding it difficult to move here now
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:06pm
It’s not just the folk who want to retire to Spain . Others like myself would like to experience it for a year but can’t now. Or in my case maybe live with my family in Italy or Germany when I’m old or have my grandkids here to work in school holidays or send presents to them at a normal price and the list goes on….
What are the benefits of leaving? No one answers my question.
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:28pm
Helpful member
lindseymonty wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:06pm:
It’s not just the folk who want to retire to Spain . Others like myself would like to experience it for a year but can’t now. Or in my case maybe live with my family in Italy or Germany when I’m old or have my grandkids here to work in school holidays or send presents to them at a normal pr...
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...ice and the list goes on….
What are the benefits of leaving? No one answers my question.
The answer is very simple the advantages are our sovereignty and making our own laws and not being subjugated under a corrupt corporate entity, the EU.
I appreciate your frustrations but it is was never about holidays, or people wanting to retire in the sun, it never was. Unfortunately too, it exposed the corruption of our own parliament where over 60% of MP's were against Brexit and this demonstrated how they selfishly have gone about not abiding by their constituents wishes. Our own MP's have shown how they, the elected ones are as contemptuous as the unelected commissions in Brussels.
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:33pm
Legendary helpful member
lindseymonty wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:06pm:
It’s not just the folk who want to retire to Spain . Others like myself would like to experience it for a year but can’t now. Or in my case maybe live with my family in Italy or Germany when I’m old or have my grandkids here to work in school holidays or send presents to them at a normal pr...
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...ice and the list goes on….
What are the benefits of leaving? No one answers my question.
That’s because the “benefits” of leaving exist only in the minds of those who still think Brexit was a good idea. There *are* no benefits, and some of the tropes trotted out by the leave brigade are pure nonsense. You’ll be told “we got our sovereignty back”, with those saying it failing to acknowledge that it had never been lost! Or “no more being forced to follow Brussels rules” - more nonsense as many of the laws implemented Britain helped draft - and had a power of veto if it felt strongly enough about something. How about “regained control of our borders” … blithely ignoring the fact that a passport has always been necessary to enter or leave UK and that net migration has *increased* post Brexit.
The real reason behind Brexit was the EU law governing tax havens and the necessity to actually declare your taxable income. This of course only really would have affected around 1% of the population, but it was that 1% that were able to fill peoples heads with lies and fears.
Eventually, in years to come and when saner heads prevail, it’s a certainty Britain will return to the EU - perhaps not as a full member, but sufficient to get free trade again. Any form of membership requires Freedom of Movement, so really any closer ties can only be a good thing.
lindseymonty wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:35pm:
You say move on . Move on to what?
Not only a divided country but also will become more and more close- minded. By the way, this Saturday I will be at the march in London to Rejoin or at least show the love for our nearest trading partners. It’s organised by the European Movement etc U...Read more...
...sually a small Spanish group join. And yes I am bitter about Brexit as it’s closed many Windows and options for me and many others.
Brexit was a total mess. With many untruths along the way. But when they say we voted to leave , that is true. But it was by 51.89 % leave to 48.11% remain. A very small margin of 3.78%. So don’t put us all in the same bracket. We need more marches and protests. This is why the politicians won’t allow another referendum, now we all know the truth. And the economic disaster on the UK. If by some miracle Starmer who should win the next election had the bottle to have another referendum if bet the results would be massively different,
Steve2023 wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:48pm:
Brexit was a total mess. With many untruths along the way. But when they say we voted to leave , that is true. But it was by 51.89 % leave to 48.11% remain. A very small margin of 3.78%. So don’t put us all in the same bracket. We need more marches and protests. This is why the politicians won�...
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...��t allow another referendum, now we all know the truth. And the economic disaster on the UK. If by some miracle Starmer who should win the next election had the bottle to have another referendum if bet the results would be massively different,
Excellent post Steve as were the others even Stuart's counter posts. I remember the day the Brexit Referendum was being announced. I woke up at 5.55am to hear live BBC news that Remaining in the EU was under Immediate Threat. As the day progressed the sad news became clearer until eventually we heard of the narrow Brexit Win. From an Irish point-of-view it was heart-breaking and suddenly the harsh truth about vengeful lies became a reality.
Many did not vote as they thought it unnecessary as was popularly believed UK would remain in the EU. Some crooked Tory politicians spun their take on the subject and paraded a red bus around advertising more lies. Despite a general election a couple of years ago all the lies stood and continued to stand and here we are in 2023 wishing the whole event never happened.
I don't think a new referendum would be of much use. We had such in Ireland on lesser EU matters but that was an Irish solution to an Irish problem done in a way only we understand why.
I hope some posters who supported Brexit will return to this thread and to be fair most of them were good writers. Point-of-View Matters.
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:42pm
Helpful member
Matthew wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:23pm:
Excellent post Steve as were the others even Stuart's counter posts. I remember the day the Brexit Referendum was being announced. I woke up at 5.55am to hear live BBC news that Remaining in the EU was under Immediate Threat. As the day progressed the sad news became clearer until eventually we h...
Read more...
...eard of the narrow Brexit Win. From an Irish point-of-view it was heart-breaking and suddenly the harsh truth about vengeful lies became a reality.
Many did not vote as they thought it unnecessary as was popularly believed UK would remain in the EU. Some crooked Tory politicians spun their take on the subject and paraded a red bus around advertising more lies. Despite a general election a couple of years ago all the lies stood and continued to stand and here we are in 2023 wishing the whole event never happened.
I don't think a new referendum would be of much use. We had such in Ireland on lesser EU matters but that was an Irish solution to an Irish problem done in a way only we understand why.
I hope some posters who supported Brexit will return to this thread and to be fair most of them were good writers. Point-of-View Matters.
Mathew, it is you who are now putting spin on the result. You cannot say that many people did not vote because they thought it a foregone conclusion that Remain would win. It was the largest vote in the history of the UK 34 million people turned out. You are right about the crooked politicians as it is they who have hampered Brexit by not getting the job done properly as the electorate instructed them to. It is they who are the crooks. The posters on the bus were factual, but subjective as to what the money could be spent on, they chose to use the example of the NHS. It was of course government who would eventually decide what to spend the money on. However, whatever it was, it was probably erroneously spent.
Theresa May was an absolute disastrous Prime Minister, more focused on tying us to the EU or at least taking as long as she could to reach the poorest of agreements with her Remainer negotiator Oily Robins leading the negotiation.
Only last week the top Civil Servant owned up on TV to being a Remainer and thought at the time he must express his opinion to his staff that he voted to remain and it was a disaster that he would never get over, thereby influencing his staff to stifle progress. Well, he certainly did that.
The main problem to not attaining maximum advantages from Brexit lies not only with the EU but our own establishment who are predominantly in the Remain camp. It is not just the EU punishing us, it our own establishment who will not get over or forgive the people for going against their almighty wishes.
I truly believe that if the establishment (or blob) were on the side of Brexit, which being on the peoples payroll they should be, we would be in a far better place with Brexit.
Stuart47 wrote on Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:42pm:
Mathew, it is you who are now putting spin on the result. You cannot say that many people did not vote because they thought it a foregone conclusion that Remain would win. It was the largest vote in the history of the UK 34 million people turned out. You are right about the crooked politicians as...
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... it is they who have hampered Brexit by not getting the job done properly as the electorate instructed them to. It is they who are the crooks. The posters on the bus were factual, but subjective as to what the money could be spent on, they chose to use the example of the NHS. It was of course government who would eventually decide what to spend the money on. However, whatever it was, it was probably erroneously spent.
Theresa May was an absolute disastrous Prime Minister, more focused on tying us to the EU or at least taking as long as she could to reach the poorest of agreements with her Remainer negotiator Oily Robins leading the negotiation.Only last week the top Civil Servant owned up on TV to being a Remainer and thought at the time he must express his opinion to his staff that he voted to remain and it was a disaster that he would never get over, thereby influencing his staff to stifle progress. Well, he certainly did that.
The main problem to not attaining maximum advantages from Brexit lies not only with the EU but our own establishment who are predominantly in the Remain camp. It is not just the EU punishing us, it our own establishment who will not get over or forgive the people for going against their almighty wishes.
I truly believe that if the establishment (or blob) were on the side of Brexit, which being on the peoples payroll they should be, we would be in a far better place with Brexit.
Sorry Stuart, I cannot run with some of your beliefs although I'll always fight for your right to express them. Brexit was the worst disaster to hit the UK since Julius Caesar. Blaming the EU or its peoples for Brexit and its faults is folly - the faults are entirely within the borders of Britain.
I think Dario is correct and that the UK needs some kind of membership of the EU. Full membership is unlikely as the EU is in the driving seat for quite some time and likely to demand full use of the Euro rather than the GBP£ (on full membership). You know and I know that won't happen no matter what.
Partial membership is the way forward for Britain. It'll cost, it'll be embarrassing for many, but it will work both ways.
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