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Petition to Revoke Article 50 - Page 2

DarioMartin

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:43pm

DarioMartin

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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:43pm

Ah. I see that traitorous venomous snake Farage has been weaving his magic again.  The petition called for British residents or Citizens.  

But we’ll accept a good old conspiracy theory - wipe out for the sake of argument a million signatures.  That’s still two million people who have been able to roust themselves and sign the petition.

The million is being generous to the tinfoil hat brigade though - I’d suggest that if it were true, the number would be far far FAR smaller than that.

So let’s put it to a second referendum - that should show squarely where public opinion lies

Rascalmate

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:17pm

Rascalmate

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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:17pm

Exactly Darius, well said.

Farage and his crew were the cause in the first place for misleading the public with a pack of total lies.

Of course, many now faced with the previously undisclosed consequences are having second thoughts about their Leave Vote.

They are beginning to realize it was probably their most important vote of their lives.

Its going to be an interesting few months.

chrisso50

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:03pm

chrisso50

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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:03pm

Ian Dunt’s blog:

“This morning, the world is full of certainty. It flipped just like that.

“Yesterday evening we were awash in the same old uncontrollable variables, drowning in them, not knowing whether we'd fall out on no-deal next week, or if the EU would accept a change from Westminster, or what on earth Theresa May would do if it came to the cliff edge. And this morning, our clothes have dried out, we're on land, the sun has come out, and we can see several things quite clearly.

“Everything's relative of course. We're still in a chaotic muddle of national horror. But it's a bit better than it was before.

“The first thing we know is the timetable. After late-night talks yesterday, the EU has offered a flexible extension. If May somehow passes her deal, Article 50 is extended until 22 May, the day before the European elections. If not, it is extended until April 12th, the last date at which Britain can pass legislation for taking part in those elections.

“As ever, the elections are the singular point in the future through which all the alternate timelines converge. You cannot stay an EU member state, even in Article 50, without taking part. But you can if you do. So if Britain comes up with some kind of plan and agrees to take part in the vote, it can extend to the end of the year and possibly longer.

“This was as good an offer as we were likely to get from the EU. It actually showed a remarkable degree of patience. It was one last opportunity for MPs to find some nerve and take control.

“But it was also an act of self-preservation. The EU weren't going to get landed with the blame for no-deal. They compromised where possible and did not where it wasn't. Now the ball is back in our court.

“As a side point, it is quite dispiriting to see how effectively, sensibly and fairly these 27 different countries can work together, to tight time frames, when we cannot even get that degree of performance out of our Cabinet. But that is another matter, for another time.

“The timetable is now set. Unless something is done by April 12th, we fall out of the EU with no-deal. This date cannot be moved. It is hard as a rock. There will be no more extensions.

“We know something else too: the prime minister is a busted flush. There is no secret plan going on in her head. There are no hidden depths, no alternative strategies. She is completely absent.

“This should've been obvious for ages, but her deadening manner has a weird effect on the brain. It somehow suggests there is a master plan behind the surface. She gives so little away, you presume there is something there to conceal. But there isn't. There's nothing. She is the packaging for a product which does not exist.

“Consider the last few weeks. She  pursued a work-down-the-clock strategy immediately followed by a humiliating request for more time. Just let that sink in for one moment. Her behaviour makes no sense on its own terms.

“This week, she alienated the very MPs she needs to pass her deal, in a bid to appeal to a public who she will not allow to vote on it. That is simply nuts. It makes no sense.

“The same was true behind closed doors. Last night she gave EU leaders a 90-minute speech - those poor people - on her extension request. "It was 90 minutes of nothing," one EU source told the Guardian. "She didn’t even give clarity if she is organising a vote. Asked three times what she would do if she lost the vote, she couldn't say. It was awful. Dreadful. Evasive even by her standards." Another said: "She was not convincing. It was not clear if she had a plan B; it was not clear if she had a plan at all."

“There is, on a basic objective level, no point listening to the words that come out the prime minister's mouth. On Wednesday, MPs were the enemies of the people. Yesterday, they had "difficult jobs to do". Last week, MPs were going to be given indicative votes. This week, those votes “had already been rejected”. Last week, she put forward a motion asking for a long extension. This week she said she would only ask for a short one. Nothing she says means anything. You can't believe a word of it, good or bad.

“So that's the second certainty: May has nothing else to offer. The government is dead. It has no plans and no idea what to do.

“Put these two certainties together and you get a third: The EU have passed the ball back and provided the timetable. The government is dead and cannot catch it. So it follows that there is only one way out this mess: parliament.

“It's easy to be cynical. They have had plenty of other opportunities to grasp this opportunity, even in such stark circumstances and with a prime minister so transparently not up to the job. But it is also wrong, on the basis of the evidence.

“On Monday, Oliver Letwin and Hilary Benn will put forward an amendment for MPs to take control from the executive of the parliamentary timetable. This same amendment was defeated by only two votes last time. That is plainly winnable. And after the changes we've seen since last week - May's duplicitousness, her attack on MPs, and the clear offer provided by Europe - you would expect it to pass this time.

“There is then, finally, a positive structure in place for how to proceed. It doesn't solve everything. We still need to find a majority for an alternative. But with MPs formally in charge, no-deal fades as a prospect, and the deadening hand of the government is finally removed from the wheel. Now we just need to hope they take it, because if they don't the only certainty left is that this country is about to take a severe beating.”

chevyrecycler34

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:23pm

chevyrecycler34

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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:23pm

You mean you trust the horde of charlatans who masquerade as our elders and betters ??, jokes like Jeremy Hunt ??, Yvette Cooper ?, what about the 17.4 million voters who comprised the majority who wanted to leave ?,  and dont lose track of the £billions the UK would still have to pay to the EU.

DarioMartin

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:30pm

DarioMartin

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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:30pm

How many of this 17.4 million still want to leave, I wonder? 

As an aside, a Leave voter, prior to the referendum, put forward a petition for a second referendum if whichever side “won” got less than 60% .... I see that got quietly forgotten in amongst cries of “undemocratic” from those who now see a distinct possibity of losing their All English Utopia.

I find it amusing that the architect of all the the utter confusion, Madam Mayhem herself is blaming her own shortcomings and inabilities if those doing exactly what they were elected to do ....

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Champ

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:30am

Champ

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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:30am

Refreshing to at last hear the other side of the argument  - I am reading Bill Bryson’s 1991 version of Neither Here Nor There and his views on page 48 of EEC re unaccountable and unelected body and how it took the members states 18 years to agree that 00 would be the common international code for Common Market countries as suggested in 1972 by the European Conference on Post and Telecommunications - so many years later and I fear not much has changed so why people think we can actually finish a ‘deal’ is interesting! 

Pity modern world doesn’t consider treason as a crime as I am stunned by Mr Blair’s constant 🦚 status - thank goodness he wasn’t given a seat in the other house!

I have seen the UK split into ‘Roundheads and Cavaliers’ and especially sad for families with opposite views - David Cameron has a lot to answer for too as the whole sage has been completely mismanaged and maybe had we waited for a new generation of politicians who were brave and bold in the face of EU bullies things might have been different. You are brave as no doubt you will get flack for having another view!

DarioMartin

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:38am

DarioMartin

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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:38am

All very valid points Champ; I think any bureaucracy will become bloated over time and to some extent incapable of making a decision (see our own parliament!). Multiply that by 28 countries and you have a recipe for indecision, prevarication and buck passing of truly stellar magnitude!

This though is not an argument against the EU, because despite that bureaucracy, the EU - has helped maintain peace on the Continent and in so doing ensured there is no rise to power of a single nation state that could lead yet again down the path to war. 

Much has been made of the huge amount UK apparently gives to Brussels - yet our contributions to the EU are less than 0,7% of our GDP (Thanks Chrisso 50 ;-D) so that, really, is not a valid argument against membership, nor is the “open border” argument because as I’ve noted elsewhere I recall a time prior to EU membership when UK was being “overrun” (word used at that time) by persons who came from nowhere near Europe.  My understanding is that migration to the UK is STILL occurring to a large extent by persons outside of Europe - so how will leaving the EU “take back control of our borders”? We’ve never really ever HAD effective control!! Leaving EU now suddenly means migration will stop? To borrow a phrase I’m not normally prone to using ...”do me a favour ...”

The arguments presented for leaving also ignored the reasons for being there - not just trade, but effective security through co-operation with European security forces.  With Brexit, that ends.  

Sadly, anyone who thinks now that UK will stand happily alone as it used to, forging great trade deals with other countries and having strong security, is I fear living a romantic, nostalgic fantasy.  The world has moved on and we CANNOT go back to a glory age that no longer exists, simply because the world politics and conditions that made that Rule Britannia era possible no longer exist.

Much of our economic power is/was? Inextricably intertwined with the continent, businesses, manufacturing and trade.  Who exactly are we going to make favorable trade deals with? Japan? Doubt it - they’ve signed a huge trade deal with EU - don’t need us.  USA? Please excuse me while I pick myself up from the floor after laughing. Trump.  Enough said. China? China already floods our markets with products we eagerly and greedily consume, why would China need a ”trade deal”?

Now economics is not my strong point, the above is the thoughts of a layman and simply my opinion (for what it’s worth) - but that’s the opinion that guides me to believing staying a part of the EU is better for us than trying to go it alone.

DarioMartin

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:29pm

DarioMartin

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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:29pm

Update: 4,3 million signatures and growing. It is now THE most popular parliamentary petition in history.....

ian948

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:37am

ian948

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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:37am

As a UK Citizen , albeit a disenfranchised one , this petition is the first time I can enter an opinion !  Yes an overseas or "foreign" vote as currently in Mexico - but valid.

After 37 years overseas selling and promoting an all UK made set of products it never felt very democratic to have one's right to vote taken away after 15 years.....

The UK used to lead the world in a parliamentary democracy - the idiot that decided to go for mob rule to save his party should be charged with treason - there are massive and deeply factual arguments on both sides of the issue, as there are also huge emotional aspects , none of this was discussed - simply leave or remain .  Where were the statesmen and women to create a solution that all Britons could get behind , a future that was genuine and debated by intelligent members of parliament that would bring both sides together ? ( appears that statement maybe an oxymoron )

In 1972 the eventual joining of the "common market" was for trade , Maastricht years later created a whole new design - which has led to the present situation.  However this ends - it ends badly, badly for whichever viewpoint feels left out , badly for the reputation of a once great country , badly for generations to come - how long will the divisiveness and frankly downright hate continue , decades , generations ?

The level of discourse almost everywhere I read is beyond belief - dogmatic , abusive and seriously dumb - what happened to my country while I was away ???

Thankful for the civility seen here - some parts of facebook for local groups are almost no go areas !!

Looking forward to getting "home" to my new home - Spain - any chance someone would trade passports ( any eu country would do !! ) 

:-)

Champ

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:26am

Champ

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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:26am

100% agree - the anger people feel towards opposite sides is scarey and being fed by the media here - I choose animals over people ....until I get back to Spain 😃🥰

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