Brown Envelope 😳 - General property discussion in Vera Playa - Vera Playa forum - Costa de Almería forum in the Almeria province of Spain
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Brown Envelope 😳

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 4:56pm
12 replies9 members subscribed
Son of Sinbad

Posts: 6

3 helpful points

Location: Vera Playa

Joined: 24 May 2020

Call me naive but…….

we’ve just been to view a flat with a view to purchase but the estate agent told us the seller wanted €25k in cash in a brown envelope before he would sign the Notory documents for the asking price of the flat making his tax bill lower !!!!


How common is this ?


am I a pillock for not expecting it or are some estate agents less ethical in allowing themselves to accept instructions like that ?

I would be interested if anyone else has tried to be tapped like that …..

Open to comments.,.,


thanks


😳

hartcjhart

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 5:01pm

hartcjhart

Very helpful member

Posts: 1136

995 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 26 Oct 2017

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 5:01pm

I know it used to happen a lot I did it when buying 10k in envelope sit in the Notaries office he reads allthe paperwork then makes am excuse to go out an envelope is passed over

theta was 20 years ago,the tax man is getting cuter and it could affect you when you come to sell

Son of Sinbad

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 5:10pm

Son of Sinbad

Original Poster

Posts: 6

3 helpful points

Location: Vera Playa

Joined: 24 May 2020

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 5:10pm

hartcjhart wrote on Tue Oct 8, 2024 5:01pm:

I know it used to happen a lot I did it when buying 10k in envelope sit in the Notaries office he reads allthe paperwork then makes am excuse to go out an envelope is passed over

theta was 20 years ago,the tax man is getting cuter and it could affect you when you come to sell

So l’m not quite a pillock just yet then then 

🤪

Geordiemark

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 6:01pm

Geordiemark

Helpful member

Posts: 385

423 helpful points

Location: Arboleas

Joined: 22 Oct 2021

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 6:01pm

I was told it happened a lot, before the authorities cracked down on it. As we were buying our place, all legit, everything thru the bank, with proof of source of funds with the solicitor, Then to son of the old fella who was selling us the place, kept coming round wanting us to renague on the deal and go thru it again with a cash payment to him! He got told to do one and if he came back we were calling the guardia.

DarioMartin

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 8:25pm

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 5861

7083 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Tue Oct 8, 2024 8:25pm

I would urge caution - Spain has now made it an offence to pay for any product or service of 1.000€ or more in cash.  Passing over 25K in cash could leave you liable to rather hefty sanction if the Hacienda caught wind, and they are tightening up on that quite a lot

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Alicia 11

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 9:31am

Alicia 11

Super helpful member

Posts: 2274

1946 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 30 Sep 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 9:31am

this was the Black Money that was all the rage back in the Property boom in 2003 lots of cash in envelopes to avoid the tax man.  Not advised now as the taxman will know and you will get the bill for the right amount plus a fine.  Walk away from it.

Looey

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:07am

Posts: 17

14 helpful points

Location: Vera Playa

Joined: 14 Nov 2022

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:07am

Alicia 11 wrote on Wed Oct 9, 2024 9:31am:

this was the Black Money that was all the rage back in the Property boom in 2003 lots of cash in envelopes to avoid the tax man.  Not advised now as the taxman will know and you will get the bill for the right amount plus a fine.  Walk away from it.

Walk away. Make sure your lawyer knows the estate agent and seller has attempted this illegal transaction. 

Tim

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:08am

Tim

Posts: 116

45 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 20 Sep 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:08am

It happens all the time ,  but up to you, be carefull, you can get in trouble I sold a property the same once. Half n half I was ok but ya never know , good luck

DarioMartin

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:17am

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 5861

7083 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:17am

Tim wrote on Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:08am:

It happens all the time ,  but up to you, be carefull, you can get in trouble I sold a property the same once. Half n half I was ok but ya never know , good luck

You’re a brave man admitting that on a public forum 😁

In all seriousness AEAT has REALLY cracked down on cash transactions above 1.000€ now, inviting ANYONE who has knowledge of such a transaction or attempted transaction to advise them.

So if someone goes ahead and thinks AEAT will never find out … ANYONE can grass you up.  If you are asked to make such a transaction, AEAT have indicated that they would be interested to know about it.

Spain loves its bureaucracy and quite often things get muddled or lost.  Not with the tax office.  Cross those buitres at your own peril.  They are merciless and have no sense of humour at all. 

juanida

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 12:18pm

juanida

Very helpful member

Posts: 774

595 helpful points

Location: Sorbas

Joined: 25 Feb 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2024 12:18pm

Sinbad, this person doesn't seem to be a proper bona fide estate agent.  These self appointed property sellers are known as 'correderos'.  It's possible that an estate agent might say that the seller wanted to declare less in the sale deeds (reason being to pay less tax) but would be asking for the balance to be paid in 'dinero negro'!  However, you would be advised never to do this because if you bring X amount of money into Spain to buy, you have to justify that same as I taxable amount if one day you want to sell up and return with the money you brought from the UK.  Not only that but things have tightened up a lot in recent years and this could lead YOU into having other problems on your plate as someone else has already explained.  However, it is the seller and not the estate agent who pockets the undeclared cash, so I think this person is someone who is working free lance and trying to ask over above the selling price and hoping to pocket the difference without the seller knowing.

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