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Help needed to understand the 180 days

Posted: Sun Apr 4, 2021 4:30pm
14 replies749 views7 members subscribed
Sanders7

Posts: 2

1 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 23 Jul 2019

If  i  go  out  to  a  Schegen  Country  on  July  1sr  for  7  days  will  that  start  my  180  days.  which  i  am  allowed  90  days  in  that  peroid  leaving  me  with 83  days  .Could  i  then  go  out  on  the  1st  of  October  to  Roquetas  de  Mar  for  83days  coming  back  to  the  UK  on  the  15th  December.  when  does  my  next  180  days   commence.  Could  i  return  to  Roquetas  de  Mar  on  the  1st  of  January  to  28th  March  for  87  days

sm

Posted: Sun Apr 4, 2021 8:54pm

sm

Posts: 27

28 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 9 Jun 2020

Posted: Sun Apr 4, 2021 8:54pm

When applying this rule, the following aspects should be taken into account:

 • The date of entry is considered as the first day of stay in the Schengen territory;

 • The date of exit is considered as the last day of stay in the Schengen territory;

 • Absence for an uninterrupted period of 90 days allows for a new stay for up to 90 days.

 It should be noted that periods of previous stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa are not taken into account in the calculation of the duration of visa-free stay. Residence permits and long-stay visas are subject to different rules.

 3. Can I enter the Schengen area more than one time during that period? Yes, you can. However you must carefully calculate your days of stay as the overall period of stay must not exceed the overall total of 90 (ninety) days of stay within any 180-days period. 

www.exteriores.gob.es/Embajadas/PUERTOESPANA/en/Noticias/Documents/Visa%20Free%20Regime%20FAQ.pdf

DarioMartin

Posted: Sun Apr 4, 2021 10:14pm

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 3059

3448 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Sun Apr 4, 2021 10:14pm

Good answer from sm.

Don’t try and guess it - use a Schengen Calculator like the one linked below to check how many days of your 90 you have left

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/visa-calculator/calculator.htm?lang=en

DarrenB

Posted: Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:56am

Posts: 3

3 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 5 Feb 2021

Posted: Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:56am

The mistake you are making is trying to count forward- you need to think of where you have been in the last 180 days counting backwards from any date in time. So if you want to stay legally in the Schengen area on a particular date look backwards and check that you have spent a minimum of 90 days out of the area. It’s a rolling target so if at any point as your Schengen stay continues and you find that combined across the last 180 days you have not spent 90 days combined outside then you are supposed to leave 

Derrymore

Posted: Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:46pm

Posts: 41

37 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 27 Jan 2020

Posted: Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:46pm

When a UK or other non-EU citizen sets foot in any Schengen country, a 90 day clock starts ticking. That person must be out of the Schengen area on or before the 90 day limit.  It doesn't matter if the person leaves the area before the 90 days are up, that clock keeps ticking. 

That person must be out of the Schengen area between 90 and 180 days of the first arrival. Otherwise he/she will have overstayed and could be deported. 

It is possible (although very clunky!) to apply for an extension, subject to evidence of adequate financial reserves, appropriate health insurance and a satisfactory explanation for the reason for staying. 

Some local authorities provide help for people who find themselves needing to extend their stay beyond the 90 days. Other authorities are indifferent at best or impose very strict conditions. People should seek appropriate legal advice as to what approach they should take.

Most EU countries offer a "Golden Visa" scheme (all with different terms and conditions), which allow a non-EU citizen long term residency - or even citizenship  - in return for a substantial investment. This may be an option for some people wishing to remain long term in Schengen. 

DarrenB

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:23pm

Posts: 3

3 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 5 Feb 2021

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:23pm

Derrymore wrote on Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:46pm:

When a UK or other non-EU citizen sets foot in any Schengen country, a 90 day clock starts ticking. That person must be out of the Schengen area on or before the 90 day limit.  It doesn't matter if the person leaves the area before the 90 days are up, that clock keeps ticking. 

That person must be out of the Schengen area between 90 and 180 days of the first arrival. Otherwise he/she will have overstayed and could be deported. ...

...

It is possible (although very clunky!) to apply for an extension, subject to evidence of adequate financial reserves, appropriate health insurance and a satisfactory explanation for the reason for staying. 

Some local authorities provide help for people who find themselves needing to extend their stay beyond the 90 days. Other authorities are indifferent at best or impose very strict conditions. People should seek appropriate legal advice as to what approach they should take.

Most EU countries offer a "Golden Visa" scheme (all with different terms and conditions), which allow a non-EU citizen long term residency - or even citizenship  - in return for a substantial investment. This may be an option for some people wishing to remain long term in Schengen. 

It is my understanding that this is wrong and the idea of a clock starting on entry is misleading. You ought to see each day you intend to spend in a Schengen country as the last in a 180 period and as long as you have been outside for combined 90 days + then you can remain. If at any point in your stay you can’t count backwards 180 days and say you can account for combined 90 days + outside the area then you ought to leave until you can count back 180 days and account for 90 days + outside. So it’s not a clock starting it’s a clock finishing and each day can be measured with concrete certainty as to whether you are entitled to stay or not depending on your last 180 day location history. 

Derrymore

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:36pm

Posts: 41

37 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 27 Jan 2020

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:36pm

DarrenB wrote on Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:23pm:

It is my understanding that this is wrong and the idea of a clock starting on entry is misleading. You ought to see each day you intend to spend in a Schengen country as the last in a 180 period and as long as you have been outside for combined 90 days + then you can remain. If at any point in yo...

...ur stay you can’t count backwards 180 days and say you can account for combined 90 days + outside the area then you ought to leave until you can count back 180 days and account for 90 days + outside. So it’s not a clock starting it’s a clock finishing and each day can be measured with concrete certainty as to whether you are entitled to stay or not depending on your last 180 day location history. 

Hi DarrenB.

Look it up on either Brexit or EU websites if you need to check it out. 

Non-EU citizens who were in Schengen area on 1 January must leave on or before 31 March (90 days), unless they applied for and received a visa extension. 

Those without a visa extension may not return to or be in Schengen zone between day 91 of first arrival and day 180.

Many people are under the impression that the 90 days is a cumulative figure, but it very definitely is not. As I said, look it up if you don't believe me.

I'm fortunate, being Irish, so none of these restrictions apply to me personally, but I've got many expat UK neighbours and friends who are extremely concerned about the implications for them.

Applying for a visa extension requires you can demonstrate - among other  things  - that you're not going to be a burden on the Schengen taxpayer: you've adequate health insurance, financial arrangements, and accommodation organised. 

It's a clunky process, and application should be made as soon as you know you are likely to be in the Schengen zone for over 90 days from first arrival. 

As I said in my earlier message, some local authorities are helpful but others are either indifferent or even unhelpful. In any case, you should seek legal advice. 

Good luck!

DarrenB

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:17pm

Posts: 3

3 helpful points

Location: Roquetas de Mar

Joined: 5 Feb 2021

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:17pm

Derrymore wrote on Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:36pm:

Hi DarrenB.

Look it up on either Brexit or EU websites if you need to check it out. 

Non-EU citizens who were in Schengen area on 1 January must leave on or before 31 March (90 days), unless they applied for and received a visa extension. 

Those without a visa extension may not return to or be in Schengen zone between day 91 of first arrival and day 180.

Many people are under the impression that the 90 days is a cumulative figure, but it very definitely is not. As I said, look it up if you don't believe me.

I'm fortunate, being Irish, so none of these restrictions apply to me personally, but I've got many expat UK neighbours and friends who are extremely concerned about the implications for them.

Applying for a visa extension requires you can demonstrate - among other  things  - that you're not going to be a burden on the Schengen taxpayer: you've adequate health insurance, financial arrangements, and accommodation organised. 

It's a clunky process, and application should be made as soon as you know you are likely to be in the Schengen zone for over 90 days from first arrival. 

As I said in my earlier message, some local authorities are helpful but others are either indifferent or even unhelpful. In any case, you should seek legal advice. 

Good luck!

Hi I do believe you do the reason why someone who has been living in Schengen in 2020 is that at 31 March they can’t look back 180 days and account for 90 days outside. So to answer to original specific enquiry the person would be allowed in July 1 if since 2 jan 2021 they had spent 90 or more days out of Schengen in 180 days since then. If this was their first trip in then no problem - if they had spent first week or first 3 months of year in Schengen then they would be allowed to stay as each day rolling on from 1 st July would be replacing days falling out of the 180 day period beginning of January. They then want to come back assuming they have gone out 8th July to 30 Sep. So coming back 1 October and staying 83 days to 15 Dec. This appears ok because at beginning and end of this stay looking back they have not overstayed 90 days in last 180 days. So they leave 16 Dec to 31 Dec. They could return Roquetas 1st Jan and stay till 7th Jan because in preceding 180 days you count the 83 days 1st October to 15 Dec and the first 7 days of Jan 2922. They would not be able to stay in Roquetas from 8 Jan to 28 March on no visa basis. They can come back again in 2022 when the 1 October 2021 visit starts falling out of the preceding 180 days ie 31 March 2022  when they could stay Max 83 days again. By looking back instead of kick starting a new clock forward anyone should be able to work out if they can stay and how long for. I guess this will be policed by passport checks at border showing dates in and out.

DarioMartin

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:18pm

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 3059

3448 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:18pm

Derrymore wrote on Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:36pm:

Hi DarrenB.

Look it up on either Brexit or EU websites if you need to check it out. 

Non-EU citizens who were in Schengen area on 1 January must leave on or before 31 March (90 days), unless they applied for and received a visa extension. 

Those without a visa extension may not return to or be in Schengen zone between day 91 of first arrival and day 180.

Many people are under the impression that the 90 days is a cumulative figure, but it very definitely is not. As I said, look it up if you don't believe me.

I'm fortunate, being Irish, so none of these restrictions apply to me personally, but I've got many expat UK neighbours and friends who are extremely concerned about the implications for them.

Applying for a visa extension requires you can demonstrate - among other  things  - that you're not going to be a burden on the Schengen taxpayer: you've adequate health insurance, financial arrangements, and accommodation organised. 

It's a clunky process, and application should be made as soon as you know you are likely to be in the Schengen zone for over 90 days from first arrival. 

As I said in my earlier message, some local authorities are helpful but others are either indifferent or even unhelpful. In any case, you should seek legal advice. 

Good luck!

In Spain, absent a medical emergency or pressing and urgent family issues, an extension will not be granted.  I’m putting this out there so that people don’t get to believing they can come out, then extend their visa for a long holiday.

DarioMartin

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:20pm

DarioMartin

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 3059

3448 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:20pm

DarrenB wrote on Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:17pm:

Hi I do believe you do the reason why someone who has been living in Schengen in 2020 is that at 31 March they can’t look back 180 days and account for 90 days outside. So to answer to original specific enquiry the person would be allowed in July 1 if since 2 jan 2021 they had spent 90 or more ...

...days out of Schengen in 180 days since then. If this was their first trip in then no problem - if they had spent first week or first 3 months of year in Schengen then they would be allowed to stay as each day rolling on from 1 st July would be replacing days falling out of the 180 day period beginning of January. They then want to come back assuming they have gone out 8th July to 30 Sep. So coming back 1 October and staying 83 days to 15 Dec. This appears ok because at beginning and end of this stay looking back they have not overstayed 90 days in last 180 days. So they leave 16 Dec to 31 Dec. They could return Roquetas 1st Jan and stay till 7th Jan because in preceding 180 days you count the 83 days 1st October to 15 Dec and the first 7 days of Jan 2922. They would not be able to stay in Roquetas from 8 Jan to 28 March on no visa basis. They can come back again in 2022 when the 1 October 2021 visit starts falling out of the preceding 180 days ie 31 March 2022  when they could stay Max 83 days again. By looking back instead of kick starting a new clock forward anyone should be able to work out if they can stay and how long for. I guess this will be policed by passport checks at border showing dates in and out.

The above explanation, whilst comprehensive, is a very good example of why you’d use one of the free Schengen stay calculators.  I haven’t checked but I’d be betting you can even get it as a smartphone app

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