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90/180. changing to 180/365 Is it possible? - Page 2

devo49

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:39am

devo49

Very helpful member

Posts: 749

764 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 22 Aug 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:39am

DarioMartin wrote on Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:08am:

I’m sorry, but that narrative is so full of inaccuracies ... 

1. There was no “drafting error in the withdrawal agreement”.  UK turned down flat Freedom of Movement; it actively sought to END Freedom of Movement - that wasn’t a “drafting error”, it was an objective of Brexit!

2. People haven’t been “forced to live” in Europe.  There is a misconception that Residencia was really just a way to have a long holiday in Spain.  It’s not.  Residencia means RESIDENCE.  You are RESIDENT of Spain, you reside here, it is your country of primary residence. It is where you live.

3. Those who have to leave because their Residencia has lapsed are those who treated Residencia as a long-term holiday visa, and within the first 5 years spent more that 183 days in any year outside of Spain.  Rules of continuous residency mean that you are obliged to spend 183 days a year in Spain.  Pre 1/1/21 this was largely overlooked by Spanish authorities. Now it isn’t and anyone who is found to have significantly breached rules of continuous residency will lose their Residencia.

4. The above doesn’t affect anyone who’s been here longer than 5 years, as when you become permanent resident you can spend up to 5 years outside Spain without losing Residencia.  There will be very very very few permanent residents who’s residency has lapsed because of this. Much more likely they are long-termers who never had residency in the first place because they didn’t want to pay Spanish tax on worldwide income

5. This is not something that can be included as a clause in the withdrawal agreement or sorted out with a treaty with Spain.  It would require UK to accept Freedom of Movement, and again, one of the Brexit objectives was cessation of FoM.

It’s not a “drafting error” or some other speed bump.  It is a direct consequence of Brexit.  UK voted to leave the EU and become a Third Country Nation, and to accept the strictures and limitations upon travel faced by Third Country Nations.  This is what you voted for Britain, and I’ve been assured the vast majority of the 17.3 million knew exactly what they were voting for.

Why then now is there such a push to try and overturn one of the tenets of Brexit? Freedom of Movement? because FoM is what is required to get you longer than 90 days.

Precise and soundly written , good one 

L181SKY

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:43am

L181SKY

Original Poster

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Posts: 999

690 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:43am

DarioMartin wrote on Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:08am:

I’m sorry, but that narrative is so full of inaccuracies ... 

1. There was no “drafting error in the withdrawal agreement”.  UK turned down flat Freedom of Movement; it actively sought to END Freedom of Movement - that wasn’t a “drafting error”, it was an objective of Brexit!

2. People haven’t been “forced to live” in Europe.  There is a misconception that Residencia was really just a way to have a long holiday in Spain.  It’s not.  Residencia means RESIDENCE.  You are RESIDENT of Spain, you reside here, it is your country of primary residence. It is where you live.

3. Those who have to leave because their Residencia has lapsed are those who treated Residencia as a long-term holiday visa, and within the first 5 years spent more that 183 days in any year outside of Spain.  Rules of continuous residency mean that you are obliged to spend 183 days a year in Spain.  Pre 1/1/21 this was largely overlooked by Spanish authorities. Now it isn’t and anyone who is found to have significantly breached rules of continuous residency will lose their Residencia.

4. The above doesn’t affect anyone who’s been here longer than 5 years, as when you become permanent resident you can spend up to 5 years outside Spain without losing Residencia.  There will be very very very few permanent residents who’s residency has lapsed because of this. Much more likely they are long-termers who never had residency in the first place because they didn’t want to pay Spanish tax on worldwide income

5. This is not something that can be included as a clause in the withdrawal agreement or sorted out with a treaty with Spain.  It would require UK to accept Freedom of Movement, and again, one of the Brexit objectives was cessation of FoM.

It’s not a “drafting error” or some other speed bump.  It is a direct consequence of Brexit.  UK voted to leave the EU and become a Third Country Nation, and to accept the strictures and limitations upon travel faced by Third Country Nations.  This is what you voted for Britain, and I’ve been assured the vast majority of the 17.3 million knew exactly what they were voting for.

Why then now is there such a push to try and overturn one of the tenets of Brexit? Freedom of Movement? because FoM is what is required to get you longer than 90 days.

The Video was to show how the British People were LIED TO REPEATEDLY.  Simple.  

Susan1960

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02pm

Posts: 12

4 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 28 Jun 2020

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02pm

Under the new system, if you’re an EU, EEA and Swiss citizen, you can continue to visit the UK without applying for a visa and in most cases, will be able to stay for up to six months. You may participate in a wide range of activities, including business-related activities such as meetings, events and conferences.

so EU members can stop in the UK  for up to 6 months but UK MEMBERS CANNOT STOP IN THE EU FOR 6 MONTHS THATS THE ISSUE.

So either the UK changes to 90 days or the EU changes theirs to 6 months. i think really thats the issue

DarioMartin

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:17pm

DarioMartin

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Posts: 5384

6418 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:17pm

Susan1960 wrote on Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02pm:

Under the new system, if you’re an EU, EEA and Swiss citizen, you can continue to visit the UK without applying for a visa and in most cases, will be able to stay for up to six months. You may participate in a wide range of activities, including business-related activities such as mee...

...tings, events and conferences.

so EU members can stop in the UK  for up to 6 months but UK MEMBERS CANNOT STOP IN THE EU FOR 6 MONTHS THATS THE ISSUE.

So either the UK changes to 90 days or the EU changes theirs to 6 months. i think really thats the issue

That is specific to Business Travel to the UK (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/visiting-the-uk-as-an-eu-eea-or-swiss-citizen)

Full text from above reads:
Business travel to the UK

If you’re an EU, EEA or Swiss Citizen travelling to the UK for a short business trip, you may not need to apply for a visa.

Under the UK’s new points-based immigration system, you can continue to visit the UK without applying for a visa. In most cases you can stay for up to 6 months. You may participate in a wide range of activities including business-related activities such as meetings, events and conferences. You may enter the UK multiple times during that period but you may not live in the UK by means of frequent or successive visits.

As a business visitor, you cannot:

  • do paid or unpaid work for a UK company or as a self-employed person
  • do a work placement or internship
  • sell directly to the public or provide goods and services  

Visitors, however :
EEA and Swiss citizens will be able to continue to enter the UK without a visa and stay for up to 3 months without doing anything

Gerry N

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:11pm

Posts: 10

7 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 25 Mar 2021

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:11pm

Totally agree the British government can't be trusted to make the simplest of decisions there was no need to make so many ridiculous changes

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Joeroyle62

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:14pm

Posts: 3

1 helpful points

Location: Almería

Joined: 8 Mar 2021

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:14pm

Susan1960 wrote on Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02pm:

Under the new system, if you’re an EU, EEA and Swiss citizen, you can continue to visit the UK without applying for a visa and in most cases, will be able to stay for up to six months. You may participate in a wide range of activities, including business-related activities such as mee...

...tings, events and conferences.

so EU members can stop in the UK  for up to 6 months but UK MEMBERS CANNOT STOP IN THE EU FOR 6 MONTHS THATS THE ISSUE.

So either the UK changes to 90 days or the EU changes theirs to 6 months. i think really thats the issue

That's because UK never signed up to the Schengen - so they can do 6 months in UK much like you can do from UK to Canada for Example

Spain signed up to Schengen , hence 90 in 180

Joe

jools

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:15pm

Posts: 42

16 helpful points

Joined: 19 Mar 2021

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:15pm

Hi i also do not want residency but would love to spend more time..should i wish than 90 days/180 ...but it hasn't put me off buying in fact am half way through the process...which is quite a process.  Not seen the house for real but it's an adventure and I'm sure it will be fine...cant wait to travel and get in. 

Susan1960

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:23pm

Posts: 12

4 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 28 Jun 2020

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:23pm

Joeroyle62 wrote on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:14pm:

That's because UK never signed up to the Schengen - so they can do 6 months in UK much like you can do from UK to Canada for Example

Spain signed up to Schengen , hence 90 in 180

Joe

thanks Joe didnt know that.

It does not effect me as my residency is in way before deadline as we want to retire in Spain so just had to plan it as we are taking retirement early so we can get residency

L181SKY

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:31pm

L181SKY

Original Poster

Very helpful member

Posts: 999

690 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:31pm

Susan1960 wrote on Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02pm:

Under the new system, if you’re an EU, EEA and Swiss citizen, you can continue to visit the UK without applying for a visa and in most cases, will be able to stay for up to six months. You may participate in a wide range of activities, including business-related activities such as mee...

...tings, events and conferences.

so EU members can stop in the UK  for up to 6 months but UK MEMBERS CANNOT STOP IN THE EU FOR 6 MONTHS THATS THE ISSUE.

So either the UK changes to 90 days or the EU changes theirs to 6 months. i think really thats the issue

Thank you.   

DarioMartin

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:47pm

DarioMartin

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Posts: 5384

6418 helpful points

Location: Vera

Joined: 16 Aug 2017

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:47pm

L181SKY wrote on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:31pm:

Thank you.   

Please PLEASE read the full text - this is NOT across the board and applies to Business travel to UK only.  EU, EEA and Swiss visitors get ..... 90 days.

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