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90/180. changing to 180/365 Is it possible?

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:07am
54 replies2467 views9 members subscribed
L181SKY

L181SKY

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Some people are finding , that the attitude of “some” of the people who were fortunate enough to be in the position to move to Spain and become residents ,prior to the 1st January 2021 seem to be in the “I’m alright Jack” brigade!    Obviously it is so much more difficult now for anyone who is not a millionaire to move to retire in Spain. We have lost so many rights and the government seemed to not care about us at all and simply ignored the fact that we have invested in our future retirement only to have the rug pulled from under our feet. There were no provisions made for us ! Nothing in the withdrawal agreement.   It’s fine for people to say,well you’ve still got 180 a year, but even that, something that could so easily have been covered ,wasn’t, it’s not so easy to do two big trips of 90 a year when it could have been one. Flying is one thing, driving is quite something else!      To have the freedom to choose how we use the 180/365. that would have been at least something. After all, what difference does it REALLY make if your Allowance is 180 in 365 anyway ?   This is a great forum for information as there are so many well informed people on here lol ,  I found a facebook page that is supporting people finding themselves in this position. It is called.   British multi-country residents/owners/workers/retirees affected by Brexit.    It’s worth a look.    UPDATE , once again, everything that follows here is by People who do not see it from a persons point of view  who is not a resident ,in some cases not out of choice but circumstances, but who has a property in the EU. These people don’t know how it feels, they just Harp on and on and on about “ well YOU voted for it “ “ so get over yourselves “.  nice.  I didn’t actually and I don’t want residencia in Spain.         Is there anyone on here who is in this position . Or are you all residents?  Which makes this a pointless post 😎

Doris

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:40pm

Doris

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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:40pm

We used to have the ‘freedom to choose’ and ‘freedom to move’ but thanks to Brexit these 2 particular freedoms have been taken away. I would be interested to know how many second home owning Brexiteers are ruing their decision. 

Doris

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:27pm

Doris

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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:27pm

This post that was quoted has been deleted.

Sorry if my post inferred that most second home owners voted brexit, I know MOST  didn’t. My question was directed at those that did, and speaking to people over the last months, I was surprised at how many there were. Sorry again. 

tony3121

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:49pm

tony3121

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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:49pm

Problem being when the UK left the EU they just couldnt say we want go but keep these thingst  it was upto the negotiating team  (which seeems to have been a amature lot)to decide what they would like to prioritise. Those with second homes in the EU were probably near the bottom of anyones thinking and looking from a political side it probably dont matter to this UK government as most will carry on voting Conservative what ever they do to them.

Lmj18

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:11pm

Lmj18

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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:11pm

L181sky, you are right. The uk government does not care about you at all. 

L181SKY

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:36pm

L181SKY

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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:36pm

Lmj18 wrote on Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:11pm:

L181sky, you are right. The uk government does not care about you at all. 

Thank you for that 

DarioMartin

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:53pm

DarioMartin

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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:53pm

The problem, as has been highlighted elsewhere, is that 90/180 is NOT a Spanish law or requirement.  It is one of the founding and essential regulations of the Schengen Zone, a grouping of 26 countries.  Changing this requirement would mean 26 countries agreeing to this change.  If it was for ALL TCNs, then that might be a possibility - but it’s not.  UK wants it changed on the basis I guess that it used to be a member.

It has been stated elsewhere that this is possible because New Zealanders enjoy longer than 90 days.  Not so.  New Zealand negotiated treaties with individual countries BEFORE the Schengen Zone came into being.  Even so, a New Zealand passport holder is STILL restricted to 90 days in any one EU country.  The difference being they can immediately travel to the next country with which NZ signed a treaty for another 90 days.

90 days is the limit, whether you are NZ, TCN or indeed EU citizen.  Even an EU citizen is obliged to register in country of residence if they intend to stay for longer than ... 90 days.

I know many Brits feel put out by this, that there should be some kind of special recognition of UKs former member status, but, despite the money UK tourists spend, UK is just NOT a powerful enough partner to have this change made just for them.  It is a noble effort, but again, it is NOT something that can be negotiated between UK and Spain as Spain is a Schengen country and the Schengen treaty would override any subsequent treaty made between Spain and UK - much as the treaties made by NZ prior to Schengen Treaty override the Schengen treaty.

Again and in short, any agreement or treaty reached between Spain and UK is immediately overridden and superseded by the Schengen Treaty.  To get longer than 90/180, Schengen Treaty would have to be changed or more likely, UK would have to once again agree to Freedom of Movement

DarioMartin

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:14pm

DarioMartin

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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:14pm

There IS one way for UK to get longer than 90 in 180 - join as Common Market - become an EEC country like Switzerland and accept Freedom of Movement.

Absent an agreement to Freedom of Movement, 90 in 180 is your lot.

L181SKY

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:32am

L181SKY

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DarioMartin

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:08am

DarioMartin

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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:08am

I’m sorry, but that narrative is so full of inaccuracies ... 

1. There was no “drafting error in the withdrawal agreement”.  UK turned down flat Freedom of Movement; it actively sought to END Freedom of Movement - that wasn’t a “drafting error”, it was an objective of Brexit!

2. People haven’t been “forced to live” in Europe.  There is a misconception that Residencia was really just a way to have a long holiday in Spain.  It’s not.  Residencia means RESIDENCE.  You are RESIDENT of Spain, you reside here, it is your country of primary residence. It is where you live.

3. Those who have to leave because their Residencia has lapsed are those who treated Residencia as a long-term holiday visa, and within the first 5 years spent more that 183 days in any year outside of Spain.  Rules of continuous residency mean that you are obliged to spend 183 days a year in Spain.  Pre 1/1/21 this was largely overlooked by Spanish authorities. Now it isn’t and anyone who is found to have significantly breached rules of continuous residency will lose their Residencia.

4. The above doesn’t affect anyone who’s been here longer than 5 years, as when you become permanent resident you can spend up to 5 years outside Spain without losing Residencia.  There will be very very very few permanent residents who’s residency has lapsed because of this. Much more likely they are long-termers who never had residency in the first place because they didn’t want to pay Spanish tax on worldwide income

5. This is not something that can be included as a clause in the withdrawal agreement or sorted out with a treaty with Spain.  It would require UK to accept Freedom of Movement, and again, one of the Brexit objectives was cessation of FoM.

It’s not a “drafting error” or some other speed bump.  It is a direct consequence of Brexit.  UK voted to leave the EU and become a Third Country Nation, and to accept the strictures and limitations upon travel faced by Third Country Nations.  This is what you voted for Britain, and I’ve been assured the vast majority of the 17.3 million knew exactly what they were voting for.

Why then now is there such a push to try and overturn one of the tenets of Brexit? Freedom of Movement? because FoM is what is required to get you longer than 90 days.

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