Should I come dilemma - Page 3

Call1e wrote on Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:54pm:

Thanks again for that it's very helpful. I'm edging personally to cut the trip to 2 weeks. The real issue is that whilst the UK FCO rules out all but essential travel all travel insurance is void so that side of the risk is elevated. This leaves only the fall back is the EHIC system which is good...

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... but doesn't cover all bases at all.🤔🤔😷

juanida wrote on Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:56pm:

I think your main Covid risk area is the airport and flight and not Mojacar.

One can safely holiday if you are satisfied with your own company, enjoying the weather, beach etc. and not abusing alcohol or visiting places where others are up to  their eyeballs in booze or whatever.  If you eat in a restaurant stay outside and keep away from crowded terraces. It's ...

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...been proved that people don't keep distance and take of their masks when pissed.

Another thing to mention is that smoking or vaporing on the street or terraces is probably going to be banned in Andalusiaany time now as it already has in the Canaries and Galicia.  Like it or leave it Matthew!  This is how to keep as safe as you can in Spain or anywhere else.

Call1e wrote on Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:04pm:

Thank you juanida.

I agree the airport and transfer is one of those fingers crossed hazards you just have to risk

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👍🤔😷

juanida wrote on Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:37pm:

If you are going to take that risk in the end and fly as I chose to do last month when I took a Spanish internal flight, bear the following in mind:

Wear a good Ffp2:- c95 mask to.protect both ways, and don't eat on the flight.  

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In Spain anyway, the restaurants and cafeterias are not open in the airports. If you need anything to drink, there are drinks machines.🙁

In Spain as a precaution, the air conditioning in airports is not turned on. 😰😰

Distancing is marked on the floor for the check in queues. 👍😀

I flew from Malaga  to the Canaries but presume all the airport's have the same restrictions.

Juliet Diaz wrote on Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:37pm:

Hi, we live here permanently and throughout the crisis have been impressed and comforted by how hard the council, police and medical centres to name but a few have worked to.keep us safe, and for most of the time we have felt very safe indeed. We were certainly happier to be here than in the UK. ...

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...Most bars and restaurants have also worked hard to maintain hygiene standards.

Cases are clearly rising in the area and despite the enormous efforts of officials to test and track and trace, the bottom line is that we are not well resourced here in Almeria to do this, probably because we had so few cases during lockdown the resources were not required. Unfortunately this means that we just do not know how bad the spread of the virus is. True, it is still fairly easy to keep a good distance from strangers while out and about. However, given that most of the recent surge in cases is amongst waiters and waitresses who share apartments with other waiters and waitresses there is the potential for the disease to have spread widely. If that's the case who knows what will happen next.

Matthew wrote on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:25am:

I take on board everything Juliet Diaz has posted. She lives permanently in the area and knows what she is talking about and has not fudged the truth. 

I note she  says there are over seventy cases of Covid-19 linked to staff working in three bar/nightclub outlets. She also says it is not known the amount of Covid-19 infections are actually in the area because it has been under resourced because of the good behaviour of residents pre high h...

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...oliday time.  This sets me thinking on a number of fronts:-

1. Seventy + waiter/bar staff confirmed with infections. How many people did these meet during each working day? How many ate from plates, glasses (not to mention cutlery etc) that these people touched? I understand some of these returned to towns from where they came and infected people there. Is it unreasonable to think they infected more people e.g. customers to the bar/nightclubs mentioned?

2. Is there a real possibility of more infections of Covid-19 being brought into the resort? 

We haven't reached the mid point of August yet. I think we will learn much more on the Covid-19 situation in the next two weeks. I'm waiting until at least that time to consider whether I will travel to Mojacar Playa.

Call1e wrote on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:53am:

Thanks for that Matthew. 

The conclusions you have drawn are perfectly reasonable and understandable. I'm not sure what it's like in Ireland but in England , pubs, restaurants, bars , cafes etc are also open. These places will all have the same interactions as in Spain, cutlery, glasses, cups , plates etc, are all being u...

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...sed and washed. I don't see that being very different at all, accept for UK staff generally not living together in flats oh and they wouldn't generally go round hugging and kissing customers as in Spain. Casinos, beauty salons, theatres and music venues are now being reopened too. 300 staff without symptoms have just tested positive in a factory in Nottingham . They are the biggest sandwich suppliers in Europe. They only know of the infection because of random testing. It's therefore possible millions are walking around asymptomatic. I guess the risk is very real and it's down to how risk averse you are as an individual and what precautions you put in place to balance that risk. The virus is with us, but we do need to live and keep a good level of perspective. So for safety reasons when you come in October don't kiss your waiter, and don't lick your plate👍😷😂

Matthew wrote on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:17pm:

Excellent Post Call1e. No punches pulled, no fudge, just plain truth. 

Current Covid-19 Situation in Ireland:- In a word Worrying. 

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1. Covid-19 Death Rate for past 2/3 weeks has been on a daily basis zero or low single figures.

2. Infections have increased from daily single figures to between 50 and 200 (mainly on building sites and meat factories).

3. Government concerned and Spain does not get a place on the "Green " list. (Return from a country on the "Red" list and be self isolated for two weeks).

4. Government warns of spikes of Covid inevitable as the year progresses.

5. All of three counties have had restrictions re-imposed and people living there can travel only within that county. We're informed more may happen.

6. Bars which do not serve substantial food were to open in June are still closed and there is the possibility that they will remain closed into September and beyond. 

7. Our airports are not properly policed and people from Covid-19 ridden countries can land in Ireland travel unchallenged into city centres and elsewhere and return to the airport later for an ongoing flight. 

8. Police have become more vigilant. 

9. 40% of new infections are to hospital staff.

10. Current R figure is 1.60 (from 1.80) and still regarded as much too high.

I know most of the above is off point and I post just as clarification for a question posed by Call1e.

Call1e wrote on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:15am:

Hi everyone.

We have an apt in Marina de la Torre which we have been updating/fixing. We have flights 27/8 to come back for 7 weeks to carry on. We've had these flights for months.  Ryanair won't cancel flights , the Spanish haven't closed borders, and we'll have to quarantine on return to the UK. The qu...

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...estion is should we come . Has the situation worsened in Mojacar/ Garrucha area, to the state of it being "high risk". It's not particularly great in UK. We note the cluster in Mojacar around some clubs but has that situation eased. Is there a feeling Spain will totally lock down soon? Any advice would be great with just 2 weeks to go👍😷🤞

KatySJ wrote on Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:45pm:

Hi Callie,

We came at the end of July, going back to UK 9 September - however, we are not based in Mojacar, but in San Jose.

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I was most worried about the flights, but the airport was really quiet, everyone wearing masks, and I was impressed with Easyjet - everything well organised - everybody wore masks, and the plane was less than half full as so many people had cancelled their flights - you could try to check how full the Ryan Air flights are. We took our own food and drink onto the plane, and they weren't selling hot drinks, anyway - also I took wipes to wipe the arms of the seats and the drinks tray, although they all seemed clean. I had also taken spare masks in case it was crowded, but I didn't feel the need to change my mask.

We have been very impressed with how distance is managed in Spain, in general.  Almost everybody wears masks, and on the beach, they keep a good distance. As in the UK, young people are probably the most likely to congregate in groups/not wear masks. Supermarkets seem to be quieter than in the UK, and gel and plastic gloves are provided so that you don't touch things with your hands and you can clean the trolley handle really well. We haven't visited Mojacar yet, but we will go - and we visited Roquetas a few days ago - there has been a rise there, and the supermarket was really quiet, and we also visited the Aquarium, where we were the only visitors in the afternoon - apparently people go in the morning but not so much in the afternoon..Another place we have visited is Oasys - the cowboy park/zoo - again this is very well managed, and the swimming pool times are divided up so that people get an hour and a quarter in the pool at set times, with entrance by ticket, to avoid overcrowding. There were 10 of us in a very large pool yesterday.

I expect I might not have talked about what you want to know - social life!! I'm not sure how i would feel about meeting up with a lot of people - I would certainly avoid indoor spaces as in the UK.  We've been to a few bars, where tables have all been well spaced out.  In bars and restaurants people take off their masks, and we haven't been anywhere where people are smoking - there is some talk in the press about stopping people smoking if there isn't a 2-metre distance, as one argument that had been made is that smoking may facilitate Covid transmission. We have only been to outdoor restaurants and bars.  i haven't really worried about cutlery and glasses - the evidence seems to be that it is the load of the virus (ie the intensity of the contact) which is key - so I just make sure I am never near another person.  I stand back as if they were a smoker - and here I've noticed that the Spanish do the same - they really keep a distance when they speak to you. 

Another factor to consider is air conditioning - the Zoe study (the app that 4 million people regularly fill in for King's College research) in the UK has suggested that airconditioning, like central heating, causes the membranes in the nasal cavity to dry up, and that this might also facilitate Covid transmission - so it is probably something to avoid if you're nervous!

I hope I might have been slightly helpful - I think I would decide nearer the time, where you can see what the rate of Covid and also the R number is.  If you're going to sort out your apartment and take care about what you do, I would say it's as safe as in the UK, but if you want to go out and socialise a lot, or go to crowded places, maybe think twice.  And of course, if you have any relevant underlying conditions, that will make your decision easier.  Medical treatment is still available in Spain on production of the health card, but holiday insurance is invalid. By the way, we all change our masks very frequently, as they get damp during the heat here - if you are concerned about the virus and how good your mask is, there is a very good article at https://www.sciencealert.com/some-masks-are-better-than-others-here-they-are-ranked-best-to-worst

Good luck, and if you come - enjoy it! Katy