Solar Power - A Bluffers Guide? - Where to buy things in Almería - Almería forum - Costa de Almería forum in the Almeria province of Spain
Mini Digger Almera
ASSSA Insurance
Grupo Platinum Estates
Have Tools Will Travel
UK DIRECT REMOVALS

Join the Almería forum

Join the Almería forumMy name's Alex and this is my website all about Almería in Spain. Register now for free to talk about Where to buy things in Almería and much more!

Solar Power - A Bluffers Guide?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:10pm
1 reply37 views3 members subscribed
Shay123

Shay123

Helpful member

Posts: 159

145 helpful points

Location: Palomares

Joined: 4 Jul 2021

Following a thread on this forum recently and after several people asked me about my new installation I put together a document that covers most of the points and issues people raised, i hope.

I am not an expert, hence the title but at least I have some technical knowledge and now some practical knowledge to get the ball rolling.

If it doesn't answer your questions, let me know and I will do my best to try and find / add an answer.

Please add on the ideas or corrections you may have especially if you have a system installed already.

This is not to provide a source of dealers in Almeria nor recommendations but intended to help potential purchasers understand some of the technical stuff. I started a thread several months ago for recommended installers, maybe that is a better place to add those recommendations or start a new thread?

Solar Power – A Bluffers Guide

The following is not expected to be definitive or directing you in a specific way to get the solar system you need and want. I am happy to amend or add to this document in any useful way if you have constructive ideas?

Reasons to be cheerful?

Solar power has been around for decades but why is it now important?

Cheap gas and oil was always available and mostly in a politically controllable way, so the need for it has been delayed but to our detriment. Someone in the Democratic Party in America calculated that if all government buildings in the USA were covered in solar panels the USA would be self sufficient in power? Yet it never happened.

So, why should you invest in solar?

Increasing costs of energy

This has always been the case but the increases are less controllable than before.

The price of oil and gas has always generated economic and political problems. To a large extent this was controllable but will become more of a concern not less in the future.

You have the option to feed into a the grid and earn a little money to offset costs of installation and to reduce the monthly payments even further. Early adopters are benefiting with small incomes.

Not everyone will benefit from this feedback tariff because the national grid of any country was not built to have lots of micro generation systems adding to it. This will depend on many factors. If you are in a city with large consumers of power, then many micro-generators can help but if you live in a rural community with lots of generators then there is a limit to amounts of feedback electricity allowed.

Buying Solar Panels Increases Your Home’s Value

In theory it should benefit potential owners but it depends on the property and the buyer?

Home buyers who can see the benefits will take to them like double glazing influenced the British market for a long time. Now double glazing is standard and has no financial value. A potential home owner not convinced about solar power or wanting to get a property at a lower price will buy cheaper and add their own system. Your system might not suit their lifestyle – similar to passing on a car with the house sale?

Be prepared to show what the benefits are? Savings may get balanced against a higher mortgage payment?

Reducing Energy Dependence on Your Utility Provider

This is the second practical reason for having a system installed.

  • It can reduce the need for say an incoming energy supply or replace an electrical supplier totally with a battery system. Systems have come a long way to provide a practical everyday solution for all.

  • Reducing the need for other fuel systems to heat your property, using any spare capacity to keep a hot water supply? Excess power can be used to keep a home from cooling down excessively during a winters day, to pump water into storage tanks, add to the heating or cooling of a pool in a Spanish summer.

Environmental Concerns
  • If you can afford a system for your home then you are also helping our ecosystem and thus reducing our environmental problems.
  • You are also helping the revolution from fossil fuel to renewables that will help people on all incomes in the future.

  • As an experienced user you can act as an operator with useful knowledge for others and act as an ambassador for renewable energy?

Political Concerns

The reduced use of fossil fuel alters the economic balance of the world. It’s a big subject but we all know the movers and shakers in this area are not necessarily the most desirable places to live or to be influenced by. Reducing these fuels can be important to some and useful to all who seek political stability.

What do you think you need to get started?

First, look at your energy bills and understand what is using power and what time of day it is used. Your fridge and freezer are going to be working through the night at regular intervals. Solar will have only 50% advantage here and a little more in the summer. Similarly if you are using cheaper night time rates for water heating? By using a timer on the water heater you can adjust the time to be during the day to take advantage of the solar power. Modern homes have larger water tanks in some cases to store more hot water. Some are using gas for instant heating. Know your system and work with this information to see how or why you can adopt a different system with solar?

Understand your solar system options

You need to understand basic possibilities and impossibilities of solar. Different homes and people want or need different things and there is no one size fits all. Companies do however, have standardised systems they will push out, as most people have similar needs and locations?

Examples

Low level user: Couple with smaller home. Water heater 1.5Kw, timer added to prevent night time heating and plenty of time for a low level of power input over a longer time during the day.

Kettle is 2.5Kw used for a short period for your cuppa. By the time the controller realises that the kettle is on and begins to feed more power into the home it is well on the way to finishing and you lose a time at either end. A lower wattage kettle would use solar more efficiently.

Washing machines might run for an hour or two but the power usage varies during that time and the solar controller will tune itself to the demand but with some inefficiency. If you are still connected to the grid the incoming supply makes up any small differences. A battery system will smooth out the energy usage.

Heating is mainly used in the evenings? TV and cooking too, when solar is not available or at low output.

Writing this guide means my computer uses 78w on average. Without a feedback tariff, about 40w has to come from the grid, it is a mandatory stipulation. It acts as a buffer zone to prevent the system feeding back into the grid.

Higher level user:

Home heating needed during the day? If you provide a system that even on a cloudy day is putting 1.5kW into the home then you are going a long way into reducing the heat to keep one room or an area of the house at a higher temperature. A warmer house also means a drier home too, or at least it should. I was able to heat a 100m2 room, 3m high with a single 1.5kW heater because the structure was built to modern insulation standards.

Low level heating systems like solar and ground heat pumps work on what seems to be a counter-intuitive basis. Conventional boilers and hot water works at high temperatures for short periods. Alternative heat systems work on lower temperatures for longer periods.

Read up about your solar system options

Not all systems are equal….

First there are differences in types of panels and their efficiencies. There is a lot to know here that is technical but you can afford named panels as easily as unnamed panels. There is some difference in price and efficiency but not worth worrying about in a major way. Most solar brands now produce good quality panels that are better than systems, still working well, that were installed ten years ago.

Basically go for a trusted panel because the other option is not worth the risk and the difference in price. This is the engine of your system. (Note the string system below works on the level of the weakest panel).

Monocrystalline / Polycrystalline Panels

There are two main types of solar panels, Monocrystalline and Polycrystalline. The mono type are more efficient by about 50%, take up less space and last longer at higher efficiencies. That means they are sold for a higher price but monocrystalline works out cheaper at the time of writing?

Power conversion

You also need to consider the inverter options as this can have large effects on getting the power generated into workable power.

String Inverters

String inverters represent the most recommended solar panel system because it is the cheapest way but it is the most inefficient way. It will still save you money but may only give 60% performance. String inverters, as the name implies are one long string of connected panels as good as the weakest panel in the system. So, if one panel is in shade the others are limited by this one panel.

Micro Inverters

The micro inverter system performs at 85% efficiency at peak performance. They use separate inverters for each panel but allows each panel to produce at it s maximum output. There is some loss at each junction but not as much as the string type if shade is involved.

Power optimisers

Work like micro-inverters but only condition the output and still send each panel’s output to a central inverter, like the string inverter. It is more beneficial and like micro-inverters it allows panels to face in different directions and have different efficiencies.

System compatibility

The inverter chosen has to suit the power production of the panels? Yes, but do not be fooled by them providing an under-rated inverter. It is a little like having a lowered power engine in the car - it has to work harder to deal with the power from panels and this shortens its life.

Product Warranties

Panels should have 25yr guarantees. Good manufacture is easy and modern panels are better than old -where the 25yr guarantee comes from. They are designed to take extremes of weather and have been installed in all kinds of environments. The rider being that some minor reduction of efficiency will occur over this time.

Inverters should come from well known brands and come with warranties too? Ethical purchasing could be from European manufacturers and not China to ensure quality and warranties.

All manufacturers produce a range of panels at different qualities and prices – just like cars. It makes sense to find out which panels other people use and get recommendations.

Lastly, get in writing from a potential supplier what they will and will not repair or replace? Do they leave you with the manufacturers guarantees only? Would they act on your behalf if there any technical problems with the equipment? This is a rare possibility but can happen and the fix is costly without guarantees and or insurance?

Costing

When you get a recommendation of a system from a supplier you need to get them to write down the real costs and savings based on your bills throughout the year and the future costs with reductions for grants and taking into accounts real feedback tariffs? A supplier can only estimate this, to give you a guide because it depends on how you use it.

The size of your system should reflect your ambition to be self sufficient or part sufficient with your new system. In Spain, homes have a power rating that your tariff is based on (first cost) – this is something you can elect to change but is the base cost of your monthly bill, regardless of how much electricity you use (the second cost).

Systems under 10K Euros in Spain are currently planning free but your company must do all the paperwork for you with the authorities.

You need to consult with your insurance company too about what the implications may be?

As a rule of thumb, at the time of writing, each kilowatt of production is going to be about 1K euros. There are big differences in quotes and sellers will use this to convince you that what they sell is better for you. If you know your stuff they will not pull the wool over your eyes. Also check the quote to see if they name the brands of equipment to be used. You will also need to know the differences in units used for power ratings kW and Kwh?

All the above depends on named products? Your quotes should be itemised panels inverter etc. so that you can compare like for like? I think a new kitchen quote would be a good comparison does your flatpack kitchen at 7K compare with you neighbours flash name 25K kitchen of the same size?

These points are where your salesman will either appal or support you. You do not need to be a mathematician to know everything but your potential installer should be able to explain to you the pros and cons of what is good for you and your budget. It is important to keep in sight, what you are trying to achieve and can’t achieve with solar power in your home.

Installation costs: Like a kitchen or house sale the installation costs of different panels and inverters should be the same for a given size of system. Differences in cost should be for the equipment. (As a rough guide your panels will be installed first – flat roof installation perhaps half a day depending on the structure and location. This will be followed up by the equipment installation and wiring to to the main fuseboard, at least half a day.

It is also useful to consider if you can you add to the system at some future date? What is good for a holiday home may not suit a retirement plan. Batteries are an expensive option now but could they be added later? Is it cheaper to install the batteries at the same time?

Have a realistic budget

Conventional string inverter systems for a home start around 3 to 4 thousand euros in Spain. So, unless you are just using only a panel or two to heat your hot water system then that is the starting point. It is easy to reach 5K for an average place / family / usage.

Do you need to fix the roof before you can install anything?

Check with mortgage/ bank lenders and your home insurance company.

Get recommendations from your peers

Try to find what other people have bought and why, What they liked about their installers or not!

Don’t forget your geography

Use the internet to find out how many sunny days you get but also what the average amount of sunlight is during the winter?

Will there be grants to help with installation – are there feedback tariffs available?

Many installers will already know this information and should be asked during your consultations.

Calculate the value it will add to your property

Maybe? Personally I think this is unimportant as before long all homes will have some kind of solar. However, a good system that you can prove to a buyer that takes you out of the grid system may be a real selling point to some and definitely in the future.

Consider the warranty

Find out the incentives you can enjoy

Not just grants but how can a system add to your lifestyle. Will you do more lunchtime entertaining to cook during the day? Will it encourage you to buy an electric bike because the power will be ‘free’, likewise, maybe the electric car?

Check the mounting system

Where will the panels be sited and how. Does this affect the structure of your home or the aesthetics? Multiple surfaces needs a more expensive system to manage the different power outputs of each panel

Don’t give in to salespeople

Know your stuff, just like buying a kitchen or a car, a little knowledge goes a long way. Ask some good questions and be clear about what you want. Salespeople, generally, with solar power are looking to get systems installed as cheaply as possible because everyone wants to know what the payback is and they are competing for business against others and sometimes less scrupulous businesses.

Other Tips

Check your suppliers reputation – is there one? Who are making the recommendations and are there current reviews? (No pun intended)

How long have they been in business? Who is in the company? Where are they based? What are they like to communicate with? Are they upfront about the bad and the good points of different systems?

Will they return to deal with issues, warranties etc?

Common Mistakes

Getting a system as cheap as possible – cheap or low cost? The rock bottom, cheapest option will not be the sensible solution and may leave you with regrets

Not knowing what power you use, not understanding your electricity bill nor what you want to get from the system.

Understand the installation process, especially what it means for the structure of your home. Are your fitters insured for damages and liability?

Allowing the salesman to dictate what system you get. They have easy systems that they do all the time, allowing them to buy in bulk and get deals – not necessarily what you want.

Not understanding warranties and the small print – what is really covered? You have a lot of technical stuff being installed, how long are the guarantees for and will the body giving them be around in that time? What efficiency ratings after a given time are offered and is that realistic – compare to other manufacturers.

Understand the local and national laws regarding installation of panels. Will your neighbours be affected? Sad example in the UK of a man who installed solar on his roof to have the neighbours up in arms about the sight of it. The photos show such an ugly row of houses in a non-conservation area but the council forced the removal. An expensive mistake and sending all the wrong messages to anyone else. Better to avoid the issues and do things properly?

Hopefully this brief introduction will help you focus on what is important and allow oyu to reflect on what you need and want from solar power.

h1 { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; background: transparent; page-break-after: avoid }h1.western { font-family: "Liberation Serif", serif; font-size: 24pt; font-weight: bold }h1.cjk { font-family: "WenQuanYi Micro Hei"; font-size: 24pt; font-weight: bold }h1.ctl { font-family: "FreeSans"; font-size: 24pt; font-weight: bold }h3 { margin-top: 0.25cm; margin-bottom: 0.21cm; background: transparent; page-break-after: avoid }h3.western { font-family: "Liberation Serif", serif; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: bold }h3.cjk { font-family: "WenQuanYi Micro Hei"; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: bold }h3.ctl { font-family: "FreeSans"; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: bold }h2 { margin-top: 0.35cm; margin-bottom: 0.21cm; background: transparent; page-break-after: avoid }h2.western { font-family: "Liberation Serif", serif; font-size: 18pt; font-weight: bold }h2.cjk { font-family: "WenQuanYi Micro Hei"; font-size: 18pt; font-weight: bold }h2.ctl { font-family: "FreeSans"; font-size: 18pt; font-weight: bold }p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }em { font-style: italic }strong { font-weight: bold }a:link { color: #000080; so-language: zxx; text-decoration: underline }


hartcjhart

Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 11:53pm

hartcjhart

Very helpful member

Posts: 1071

924 helpful points

Location: Mojacar

Joined: 26 Oct 2017

Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 11:53pm

nice avert although a bit long winded,great having solar and using the power straight away BUT storage is the downfall,you need a battery bank as big as a garage to really benefit BUT the batteries ARE NOT ENVIRO FRIENDLY

Sign up for free or login to reply to this topic

Want to reply to this topic? Login or register for free to post your message:

Find more Where to buy things topics from a particular area:


Register for free!

Login to your account

Mini Digger Almera
ASSSA Insurance
Grupo Platinum Estates
Have Tools Will Travel
UK DIRECT REMOVALS
Advertise your business here
Advertise your property
Help with my computer