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are you helping promote an ILLEGAL property?

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:37pm
31 replies2106 views12 members subscribed
philomena

Posts: 10

7 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 25 Oct 2018

I am looking for anyone who has secured an AFO or been able to obtain urban status on their property in the province of Almeria via PGOU, can you please notify me.   I was asked for my advice and it has opened a can of worms and decided further investigation is vital, a chap came to me explaining his house has been on 4 Albox Estate Agents websites for sale registers for 2 years, they all insisted he provide them with a copy of their title deeds, IBI receipts etc  to check legality etc, after checking his documents they all advertised his house on Rightmove, A Place In The Sun  etc etc   During the two years no one has viewed his home, it is walking distance from the town, has  lovely views, detached, not overlooked, I asked to see the photos and was stunned thus decided to visit it personally, it is a lovely property, furnished to an exceptionally high standard, well decorated and well priced,  thus it did not make sense, I asked him what the agents had advised -  "REDUCE THE PRICE", the house is on the market for less than Euro 140k.   We investigated further and established his house is Illegal, it was built on rustic land, I asked if any of the agents had told him - no was the reply, they just advertised it on their website, Rightmove, A Place In The Sun etc..   We could not understand why the Estate Agents advertised a house which could not be sold because to receive their comission they must sell the property, it could only be to provide a HUGE choice of properties - many not available to sell.  I plan to contact A Place In The Sun and Rightmove etc to alert them that they are promoting illegal properties and that I plan to pass this information to one of the London papers to publish these findings, we need  to warn the poor unsuspecting potential buyers who are considering buying a property in Spain, we will be seeking the opinion from the Spanish equivalent of advertising standards to investigate too.   Has anyone been told by the Estate Agent they need the AFO?Has the agent offered to help them obtain the AFO plus recommend the Architect, Abogado, Notary, Septic Tank installers etc., I need their price quotes too.   During this research, we have learned  4 people have died from stress-related mortality, they all lived in the same road in Spain where they all had their dream villa built by the local builder - an illegal property.   One couple paid Euro 250k for their villa and the land, they were told they had permission - they discovered the villa had no permission because it was in the campo and built on rustic land, thus was illegal,  they had to sell for Euro118k, the chap died as a result of a heart attack caused by stress, his sale was pre AFO,, I understand Mr Prior whose property in Vera was demolished had a heart attack too, yes we had all read these sorry tales but why are the ESTATE AGENTS advertising these properties knowing they are ILLegal.  We now have a team checking  every country property they can find on the internet for sale, we will check all the portals plus all the Estate Agents websites too, we will go to land registry to establish if the property is built on rustic or urban land, if it is rustic it will be illegal,  we will be notifying Rightmove and A Place In The Sun etc  of the properties we find which are ILLEGAL.  If you want to guard your identity I can be contacted on my email, just ask me for the details  

bobhorse

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33am

Posts: 50

12 helpful points

Location: Arboleas

Joined: 25 Feb 2018

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33am

This is interesting, we are just going through the purchasing process. We viewed a property just outside Albox put in an offer which was accepted.

The agent is Almeria Homes. The property has a parcel number which is; Poligono 38, Parcela 212 of Albox, Almeria.

We drove by last week to recce the local area in more detail and noticed a digger and skip in the front of the property.

Our Abogado is Maria Morato at Mundi Abogado based in Vera.

She informs us that the digger is there installing a septic tank.

I have just received an email from the agent telling me that the AFO has been lodged with the town hall awaiting the certificate which can take some time they advised. The agent, obviously rushing closure of the sale for payment, suggested that the vendor is willing, in order to speed things up, to have the costs of the application for the AFO held by our Abogado ahead of issue and taken off the price in the mean time.

I copied in the email from the agent to Maria our Abogado, who, sent the agent a short shrift reply asking them not to keep pushing for closure as she has not finished her preliminary searches.

Hope this helps.

Bob and Karen

Kevster

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:17pm

Posts: 73

21 helpful points

Location: Chirivel

Joined: 4 Oct 2016

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:17pm

I had a similar issue but had written into the precontract as a condition of sale that the seller was responsbile for paying and obtaining an AFO.

He hadnt done this by the time the sale was due to complete so we retained 50% of the sale price with a deadline of 12 months for him to get the AFO.  If he didnt I kept the 50% and got a very cheap house that I knew from my lawyer that I could get an AFO for.

9 months later the AFO appeared, it just seems to take along time for anything to happen in Spain.

philomena

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:40pm

philomena

Original Poster

Posts: 10

7 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 25 Oct 2018

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:40pm

bobhorse wrote on Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33am:

This is interesting, we are just going through the purchasing process. We viewed a property just outside Albox put in an offer which was accepted.

The agent is Almeria Homes. The property has a parcel number which is; Poligono 38, Parcela 212 of Albox, Almeria.

We drove by last week to recce the local area in more detail and noticed a digger and skip in the front of the property.

Our Abogado is Maria Morato at Mundi Abogado based in Vera.

She informs us that the digger is there installing a septic tank.

I have just received an email from the agent telling me that the AFO has been lodged with the town hall awaiting the certificate which can take some time they advised. The agent, obviously rushing closure of the sale for payment, suggested that the vendor is willing, in order to speed things up, to have the costs of the application for the AFO held by our Abogado ahead of issue and taken off the price in the mean time.

I copied in the email from the agent to Maria our Abogado, who, sent the agent a short shrift reply asking them not to keep pushing for closure as she has not finished her preliminary searches.

Hope this helps.

Bob and Karen

Thank you so much for helping with this situation and I am so very sorry to hear this has happened to you, what are your plans?   Given you were not made aware of this pre-deposit you are entitled to have it fully refunded plus you could claim for any related expenses.   If I can help you both in anyway please ask and I will do my best for you both.   Can you tell me how much deposit you paid?   What did you offer on the house?   What was the advertised price?   Where did you find the property, was it Rightmove, A Place In The Sun etc or Almeria Website. I need your approval to report this to the advertisers to give them the chance to put it right, they will say they were not aware of it, but being exposed will have a great effect on them.   Why did you choose Albox?  

 I also posted my findings on Arboleas Forum and received a reply which I suspected was an Estate Agent, however, another member posted saying he suspected the person was an EA,   Please go onto the website, it would help if you could post what happened to you, you do not have to state your name property details etc.

Can I pass the information to the Advertisers proving they were advertising an illegal property, I do have others and think I will have thousands before I  am finished

Regards 

philomena

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:55pm

philomena

Original Poster

Posts: 10

7 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 25 Oct 2018

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:55pm

Kevster wrote on Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:17pm:

I had a similar issue but had written into the precontract as a condition of sale that the seller was responsbile for paying and obtaining an AFO.

He hadnt done this by the time the sale was due to complete so we retained 50% of the sale price with a deadline of 12 months for him to get the AFO.  If he didnt I kept the 50% and got a very cheap house that I knew from my lawyer that I could get an AFO for....

...

9 months later the AFO appeared, it just seems to take along time for anything to happen in Spain.

Thank you for your reply it is appreciated.   Can you tell me where you found the house where was it advertised, did you go through an Estate Agent, what deposit did you pay?   Did you have a strategy if the AFO was not granted?   Have you had the property re-valued.   Can I ask the location of the property please.  

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Kevster

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:21pm

Posts: 73

21 helpful points

Location: Chirivel

Joined: 4 Oct 2016

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:21pm

It was on all the local estate agents but I viewed and went through Almeria homes, they were very good and helpful and I don’t have a problem with them.  Anyone who wants to buy in Spain will have read the pitfalls and I think the onus Is on your Solicitor and yourself to check and advise appropriately. I had done research and knew it was highly likely to get an AFO. I spoke to Town hall and utility companies as well. Property is in Los Cerricos area, comes under Oria town hall. 

I offered a price I was happy with, even more so if I kept the 50% retained if they never got an AFO, and went into it knowingly and am unlikely to be selling it anytime soon if ever.  If they didn’t get an AFO I could have pulled out as it was a clause on the pre contract signed by both sides. 

Not had it re valued as not interested unless selling and it’s only worth what someone will  pay anyway. 

Regards

Kevin 

philomena

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:48pm

philomena

Original Poster

Posts: 10

7 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 25 Oct 2018

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:48pm

bobhorse wrote on Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33am:

This is interesting, we are just going through the purchasing process. We viewed a property just outside Albox put in an offer which was accepted.

The agent is Almeria Homes. The property has a parcel number which is; Poligono 38, Parcela 212 of Albox, Almeria.

We drove by last week to recce the local area in more detail and noticed a digger and skip in the front of the property.

Our Abogado is Maria Morato at Mundi Abogado based in Vera.

She informs us that the digger is there installing a septic tank.

I have just received an email from the agent telling me that the AFO has been lodged with the town hall awaiting the certificate which can take some time they advised. The agent, obviously rushing closure of the sale for payment, suggested that the vendor is willing, in order to speed things up, to have the costs of the application for the AFO held by our Abogado ahead of issue and taken off the price in the mean time.

I copied in the email from the agent to Maria our Abogado, who, sent the agent a short shrift reply asking them not to keep pushing for closure as she has not finished her preliminary searches.

Hope this helps.

Bob and Karen

Hello Again

We have been discussing your situation over dinner and we are totally confused, excuse our ignorance and are hoping someone will give us the answer, you are saying the Estate Agent expects you to buy an illegal property which it will be without the AFO, how can the sale transaction take place, the Notary must verify you have provided all the documents in your case would include the AFO, you said the Agent wants you to buy the house without the document, we cannot understand how the notary can verify all the documents when he does not have them, he cannot send your file to land registry because they would want the AFO, the only way around this is he/she must hold all the transaction till the AFO actually arrives.   What happens if the AFO is not issued>   Who would be holding the stamp duty you are liable for?    Who will be holding the capital gains tax the vendor owes?    You could not go to the courts because you entered an illegal contract,   If anyone knows how a transaction can take place in a notary office without all the correct documentation please tell us

philomena

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:23pm

philomena

Original Poster

Posts: 10

7 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 25 Oct 2018

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:23pm

philomena wrote on Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:55pm:

Thank you for your reply it is appreciated.   Can you tell me where you found the house where was it advertised, did you go through an Estate Agent, what deposit did you pay?   Did you have a strategy if the AFO was not granted?   Have you had the property re-va...

...lued.   Can I ask the location of the property please.  

Hello Again

We are going through all reports on the Illegal properties we have been notified of todate and they are still coming in, we are confused as to how a Notary could proceed with a sale without the AFO, what would you have done if it did not materialise, I know you retained 50% but there was no guarantee you would have been issued with it?   Would you also be kind enough to give me the breakdown of the AFO cost: tax cost to town hall, architect fees, septic tank fees, solicitor fees and notary fees we need this because I have found a person who is offering to pay these costs for a couple who need to return to UK urgently due to her very ill mother and I offered to get him the breakdown, this is also odd because to date no one would give the details.   We have been alerted of another couple - they discovered the AFO was forged thankfully they did not go through with the purchase, but still cannot get my head around how the sale could have taken place without the AFO document 

Kevster

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:42pm

Posts: 73

21 helpful points

Location: Chirivel

Joined: 4 Oct 2016

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:42pm

Hi, I dont have the costs as it was all organised and paid for by the seller.

My property was over 10 years old and had water and electric supplied and was registered at the town hall and had IBI bills etc, and my lawyer said it was legal and could be bought and sold.   But as it was on rural land and didnt have a first occupancy licence I insisted on an AFO because all my research showed that you should have one or the other.  At the time I completed, all the surveys and drawings had been done, the septic tank had been installed and the paperwork had gone in to the town hall and we had been advised that everything was ok and an AFO would be forthcoming but the paperwork and processing takes time.

So rather then delay I retained money until I had it in my hands.

If it never materialised I guess I would have been in the same siutuation as a lot of others but it was a risk I was prepared to take as I wanted the house.   The Notary seemed fine with all of this.

philomena

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:57pm

philomena

Original Poster

Posts: 10

7 helpful points

Location: Albox

Joined: 25 Oct 2018

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:57pm

Thank you for explaining that.   One widowed property owner has big problems, her house is on rustic land, she bought from an English chap who had built it and wife did not enjoy Spain, her Spanish friend checked the documents for her and explained she needed the occupation licence, she waited 9 months and told the vendor she would not wait any longer and planned to look elsewhere, the licence came through the following week and off she went to the notary accompanied by the solicitor.   She had bought in Spain previously and thought the delay in receiving the IBI bills was because the property had just been issued with the habitation licence, she learned the land had been underestimated, the lawyers had their fees and were not interested the notary advised she went to another!  Her  Spanish friends advised she employ a topographer to remeasure etc, she had to have a new escritura, re-register the land, pay to advertise that the neighbouring land belonged to the house, which cost 500 euro, we have seen all the receipts, all the documents etc it cost her about 3500 euros.   When she was told recently she now needs an AFO she was stunned, she has been paying IBI for 10 years.   I cannot comprehend why she needs and AFO too, can you throw any light on this one please?   The problem she is also up against is if she goes to a solicitor she's going to run up another bill - they love advising.   

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